Ideas for S&C for Boxing?
- Thread starter jackjohnson
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,334
- Reaction score
- 47
Yeah, don't dare ever do 6-14 reps or you'll turn into Johnnie Jackson.
Lol no.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2010
- Messages
- 1,477
- Reaction score
- 120
I'd say that the oly lifts would have a much bigger carryover to punching power than bench.
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2011
- Messages
- 3,700
- Reaction score
- 0
I don't know if there's really hard scientific fact on that, one way or another.
Generally speaking RFD tends to be more relevant to punching power than strength.....but Rate of Force Development is also highly influenced by specificity of movement(just because you can throw a javelin fast doesn't mean you can throw a punch fast).
Correlation of maximal strength with punching power is low, but maximal strength tends to be way more transferrable in general.
There are a probably a bunch of different effective ways to program strength training for boxing, because of the lack of specific strength requirements, but generally i'd be inclined to think that if you are particularly weak to begin with, then getting stronger will be more of a priority, and that working on maximal strength will probably help you get the ability to tolerate more volume of neurologically intense training, which should let you work on more general RFD(olympic lifts or dynamic effort work), which should let you train more specific max speed specific work.
Getting the most out of that would probably require some intelligent periodization. The simple way to work on that would probably be something that looks vaguely west-side ish, with something like the 5/3/1 once or twice a week option, and then a dynamic effort day, with sport specific maximum velocity work on the same day.
Generally speaking RFD tends to be more relevant to punching power than strength.....but Rate of Force Development is also highly influenced by specificity of movement(just because you can throw a javelin fast doesn't mean you can throw a punch fast).
Correlation of maximal strength with punching power is low, but maximal strength tends to be way more transferrable in general.
There are a probably a bunch of different effective ways to program strength training for boxing, because of the lack of specific strength requirements, but generally i'd be inclined to think that if you are particularly weak to begin with, then getting stronger will be more of a priority, and that working on maximal strength will probably help you get the ability to tolerate more volume of neurologically intense training, which should let you work on more general RFD(olympic lifts or dynamic effort work), which should let you train more specific max speed specific work.
Getting the most out of that would probably require some intelligent periodization. The simple way to work on that would probably be something that looks vaguely west-side ish, with something like the 5/3/1 once or twice a week option, and then a dynamic effort day, with sport specific maximum velocity work on the same day.
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2010
- Messages
- 3,794
- Reaction score
- 1
^I think that's a big thing that should be noted, what you just said. It's a discussion I have with all my new guys at the club. You need to assess what the weakest parts in your game are and prioritize them until they become strong enough to make other weaknesses surface.
That being said in regards to punching power, training for pure strength while not gaining any weight, and trying to avoid unnecessary hypertrophy is going to play out like training your body for powerful punching no matter what your level of strength. The neurophysical improvements (timing, muscle memory, relaxation, coordination, balance) are going to unfold as they do in strength training. Except the only thing in strength training that will carry over is the actual physiological changes. To make a slow, controlled strength movement is not the chosen way to throw a punch that is supposed to be fast (almost ballistic) and relaxed with minimum opposing-muscle overlap. After hitting the weights for a few weeks it takes me some time to get back to throwing fast punches that don't tire me out.
That being said in regards to punching power, training for pure strength while not gaining any weight, and trying to avoid unnecessary hypertrophy is going to play out like training your body for powerful punching no matter what your level of strength. The neurophysical improvements (timing, muscle memory, relaxation, coordination, balance) are going to unfold as they do in strength training. Except the only thing in strength training that will carry over is the actual physiological changes. To make a slow, controlled strength movement is not the chosen way to throw a punch that is supposed to be fast (almost ballistic) and relaxed with minimum opposing-muscle overlap. After hitting the weights for a few weeks it takes me some time to get back to throwing fast punches that don't tire me out.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,334
- Reaction score
- 47
I have never had an issue with this.
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2009
- Messages
- 54,923
- Reaction score
- 35,254
My advice, for what it's worth, is: don't over-think this. Choose a program that has a proven track record. Make sure your Strength Training doesn't interfere with actually practicing your Sport - if you have to choose between Lifting and Boxing, always choose Boxing. Apply the strength you develop through the techniques of your Sport.
My personal choice would be 5/3/1 with Triumvirate assistance. Although you're Lifting 3 days per week, the actual workouts are fairly short. This should allow you enough recovery time so it doesn't interfere with your Boxing. And Triumvirate forces you to train "smart". You will learn which assistance exercises are the most effective for yourself.
Good luck.
My personal choice would be 5/3/1 with Triumvirate assistance. Although you're Lifting 3 days per week, the actual workouts are fairly short. This should allow you enough recovery time so it doesn't interfere with your Boxing. And Triumvirate forces you to train "smart". You will learn which assistance exercises are the most effective for yourself.
Good luck.
MightySparrow
Orange Belt
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2011
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 0
To be honest, you'll probably put on much more weight from squats than from bench press, at least in my experience. Then again, squatting will probably do more for your punching power than benching will (contrary to many people's beliefs).
I'd say just continue lifting like you do if you enjoy it, but aim for fewer reps at higher weights. Maybe 3x3 instead of 4x8 or whatever you may do at present. It will make you stronger, but not add as much bulk.
You may want to stop bench pressing and start shoulder pressing instead. For some reason I find that this transfers more to punching power, at least if you do standing presses. In any case, you won't build as much bulky, not-so-useful pecs
Also, have a think about how often you lift, and how much it will help you in boxing and in your life outside of the ring. I lift maybe once a week and find it beneficial, but if you lift more like three times a week, maybe some of that time would be better spent working bags or jogging or skipping. Especially if you're approaching the upper limit of your weight class. On the other hand, you might want to primarily look impressive on the beach or something and do boxing mainly as a supplement, and in that case you'll have to find your own balance between the conflicting goals.
I'd say just continue lifting like you do if you enjoy it, but aim for fewer reps at higher weights. Maybe 3x3 instead of 4x8 or whatever you may do at present. It will make you stronger, but not add as much bulk.
You may want to stop bench pressing and start shoulder pressing instead. For some reason I find that this transfers more to punching power, at least if you do standing presses. In any case, you won't build as much bulky, not-so-useful pecs
Also, have a think about how often you lift, and how much it will help you in boxing and in your life outside of the ring. I lift maybe once a week and find it beneficial, but if you lift more like three times a week, maybe some of that time would be better spent working bags or jogging or skipping. Especially if you're approaching the upper limit of your weight class. On the other hand, you might want to primarily look impressive on the beach or something and do boxing mainly as a supplement, and in that case you'll have to find your own balance between the conflicting goals.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2011
- Messages
- 331
- Reaction score
- 0
To be honest, you'll probably put on much more weight from squats than from bench press, at least in my experience. Then again, squatting will probably do more for your punching power than benching will (contrary to many people's beliefs).
I'd say just continue lifting like you do if you enjoy it, but aim for fewer reps at higher weights. Maybe 3x3 instead of 4x8 or whatever you may do at present. It will make you stronger, but not add as much bulk.
You may want to stop bench pressing and start shoulder pressing instead. For some reason I find that this transfers more to punching power, at least if you do standing presses. In any case, you won't build as much bulky, not-so-useful pecs
Also, have a think about how often you lift, and how much it will help you in boxing and in your life outside of the ring. I lift maybe once a week and find it beneficial, but if you lift more like three times a week, maybe some of that time would be better spent working bags or jogging or skipping. Especially if you're approaching the upper limit of your weight class. On the other hand, you might want to primarily look impressive on the beach or something and do boxing mainly as a supplement, and in that case you'll have to find your own balance between the conflicting goals.
Thanks for your reply. Will definitely give ' lower reps,higher weight' a go
Definitely not the case. I want to win this fight! maybe after that I can worry about looking good in the summer haha
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2010
- Messages
- 3,794
- Reaction score
- 1
In any case, you won't build as much bulky, not-so-useful pecs
What the hell is wrong with you people? You're like the 4th person I've heard say this. This is flat out wrong. The pectorals are useful in punching. Don't let anyone else ever tell you otherwise.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2008
- Messages
- 10,926
- Reaction score
- 0
Not only that, but large pecs, once again, come from diet, not just benching. Also, to get large pecs, you would have to do a bodybuilding style chest routine. You wouldn't get large pecs from benching for strength alone.
- Joined
- Jun 16, 2011
- Messages
- 331
- Reaction score
- 0
How do pecs help you punch?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2006
- Messages
- 3,334
- Reaction score
- 47
Somone more qualified than I may have a better explanation, but from what I can gather the pectoralis major is used to draw the humerous across the chest. Therefore it is useful in any kind of hook.
- Joined
- May 6, 2008
- Messages
- 12,233
- Reaction score
- 83
+1000000. Don't overthink things. If you strengthen your entire body using a proven program like 5/3/1 (or any of the other programs listed in the FAQ, see link in post #2) then you will be able to perform full body actions with more strength and power. The specifics (bench vs overhead press, chins vs rows) aren't that important. The more you lift you more you will figure out exactly what works and what you like but in general you can't go wrong with a full body program made up of compound lifts.
MightySparrow
Orange Belt
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2011
- Messages
- 400
- Reaction score
- 0
It seems I caused some controversy with my comment above about how bench pressing isn't any good for punching. So even though I'm definitely not a pro boxer, I'll give my views (and those of coaches I've learned some from).
Punching really is a full-body movement, so most muscles are used to a certain extent. But most of the power is generated by legs, hips and core (especially obliques). The upper body mainly just transfers the power to the fist. I suppose you use the pecs to a certain extent in hooks and maybe even in uppercuts for this "transfer", but they don't generate a lot of power in themselves.
Many probably think that bench pressing is excellent for boxers because you push your arms out in front of you just like when you punch. But it doesn't work that way.
You can almost figure by looking at images of heavy weight boxers (say Mike Tyson for example, or Vitali Klitschko). Most of them are very muscular overall, but they won't have particularly impressive pecs.
Having said all this, there is nothing wrong with bench pressing as such. It's a fine exercise for overall upper body strength, and I do it myself from time to time. I just think it's not the most essential part of a boxer's workout.
Honestly if I were a boxer I wouldnt want to spend time on things like 531 ss or anyting like that, it takes to much out of the system of someone who should constantly be training their boxing and also other important boxing assistance stuff like cardio.
No, I'm not one of these people who thinks weight training isnt for boxers, as it 'slows you down' or makes you 'stiff, or any'a that. But consider you should be training 3x a week at least on your boxing then some cardio on top, and you wanna stay at a decent weight strength ratio how are you gonna fit in 5/3/1 or SS to your routine?
S+C for boxing should be; Boxing, Sprinting/swimming/HIIT, Pullups, Pushups, Squats, Deadlifts, Neck work, things like push press, Oly lifts if you can do em.
If your a heavy weight then of course consider a serious weight lifting programme as you can hammer calories and recover quick. ( I'm not saying non heavyweights cant follow a weight training routine but I dont tink squating 3 times a week would be a good idea)
No, I'm not one of these people who thinks weight training isnt for boxers, as it 'slows you down' or makes you 'stiff, or any'a that. But consider you should be training 3x a week at least on your boxing then some cardio on top, and you wanna stay at a decent weight strength ratio how are you gonna fit in 5/3/1 or SS to your routine?
S+C for boxing should be; Boxing, Sprinting/swimming/HIIT, Pullups, Pushups, Squats, Deadlifts, Neck work, things like push press, Oly lifts if you can do em.
If your a heavy weight then of course consider a serious weight lifting programme as you can hammer calories and recover quick. ( I'm not saying non heavyweights cant follow a weight training routine but I dont tink squating 3 times a week would be a good idea)
- Joined
- Feb 10, 2009
- Messages
- 54,923
- Reaction score
- 35,254
IIRC, Tyson did 115kg for reps the first time he ever Benched; he was a teenager at the time.
As DrBdan and I have both pointed out: it's best not to over-think Strength Training by trying to use specific exercises to replicate one's Sport. While there certainly is a place for Sports specific training, at the level we are currently discussing TS should simply get stronger and use the increased strength through the techniques of his Sport.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2011
- Messages
- 3,097
- Reaction score
- 0
So is the biceps. Does that mean boxers should spend more time power curling?
As has been stated, the majority of the power in a properly thrown punch is derived from the lower extremities and mid-section. This doesn't mean that the pectoralis major is inactive (nor the several sections of the biceps), but it does mean that it's not as relevant as many would make it out to be. It is probably MORE relevant than some on this forum give it credit for, though. So I'll agree there. A strong chest will indubatibly add some power to your punching; a strong lower body and core will probably add much more power.
