IBJJF Rule savants: Please score this match

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by JenStark, Jan 5, 2015.

  1. JenStark

    JenStark Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    97
    [YT]?v=wxxK31aMS5M[/YT]

    I felt robbed, but I don't get consistent opinions on whether I am right or wrong. What do the sherdog referees say?
     
  2. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,240
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    dude, it is a long dark shaky video.'

    Can you point out at what time you think you got robbed?
     
  3. JenStark

    JenStark Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    97
    2:00 I felt I had sweep points and 8:10 maybe as well. He turns me into turtle for less than one second before being put on his back. I know a sweep can only be done from guard. I felt in both occasions it was from a mini scramble.

    However it also ended in judges decision, so I guess the whole match was meaningful for that.
     
  4. NoneGiven

    NoneGiven White Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    2
    I'd have given you (non-colored belt, yes?) a sweep in the beginning. No points in the match other than that - maybe a couple advantages each. Hard to tell on fuzzy video. Assuming that things were even at the end, he should have got the decision. He presented many more threats to you than the other way around.
     
  5. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,153
    Likes Received:
    21
    As much as I enjoy the theoretical aspect of grappling (technique), I never bothered with learning the IBJJF rules fully. They're just too dumb.
     
  6. Musheen

    Musheen Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Messages:
    485
    Likes Received:
    3
    This.
     
  7. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,240
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    well, you already know the answer: "I know a sweep can only be done from guard"

    To be a sweep, it has to start from the guard.

    Not from turtle, not from flipping back on your knees and knee wrestle.

    It can consider a continuation of the sweep if you have NOT broken your grips.

    In both cases, it was not the case.
     
  8. JenStark

    JenStark Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    97
    Well, I'm still getting inconsistent answers even on sherdog it seems.

    I guess it was a difficult match to score, so even if I feel bad about the loss, I will stop feeling robbed.
     
  9. TrumpetDan

    TrumpetDan Green Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2008
    Messages:
    1,301
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Anaheim Hills, CA
    Both instances are not a sweep in IBJJF rules. If your opponent forces you to move to turtle, you are not able to get sweep or takedown points. It doesnt matter how fast the movement is after you turtle. There is no such thing as a scramble in terms of how you score a match.
     
  10. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,240
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    You need to learn the rules.

    A match is not difficult to score.

    As a ref, I just do not understand why so many competitors do not understand the rules of the sport they want to compete in.

    Maybe it is just easier to blame the ref, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
  11. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,240
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    [YT]ok2DWU0ZGg0[/YT]
     
  12. NoneGiven

    NoneGiven White Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    2
    For clarity:

    If I start in half guard, my opponent clears my legs, but I scramble out and knee-wrestle the guy down within three seconds that's a sweep because the exchange began in my guard and he didn't stabilize the pass, correct? If the same thing happened and I transition through turtle it doesn't count because turtle registers as a "new position" instantly, and, not qualifying as a guard, is one from which it is impossible to "sweep"?

    I'm just trying to straighten out the vagaries of when you do and don't need a three-second count.
     
  13. JenStark

    JenStark Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    97
    This was my issue as well.

    I will often go to turtle from inverted guard and attempt a blast double or single. In this case it was "knee wrestling" because the guy didn't bother to defend. Should I just forgo this technique?

    As far as I'm understanding in my situation, the guy gets reverted and should earn an advantage for "forcing" my turtle for a split second? This doesn't make sense to me without the 3 second rule.
     
  14. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2010
    Messages:
    1,637
    Likes Received:
    376
    Location:
    London, UK
    There's no rule that there has to be either a stabilised pass or a sweep, it's very often neither. The movement didn't necessarily "start from guard" just because he hadn't stabilised a pass for three seconds. If he stabilises a pass for one second and I then reverse him from under side-control that's an advantage for him and nothing for me.

    P.S. Not claiming this makes any sense, it's entirely stupid and counter-productive IMO.
     
  15. ShanghaiBJJ

    ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Shanghai
    100% agree with Lechien on scoring those 2 sweeps. Definitely no sweep points.

    Regarding the sweep points from halfguard via going to your knees, I only score that when you do not change your grips and it is a fluent situation, meaning he cannot fully stabilize his turtle.
     
  16. JenStark

    JenStark Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    97
    You know, actually watching again, I realize I don't go from inverted to turtle, but from inverted directly to my knees - in a fluent motion. What's up with that?
     
  17. ShanghaiBJJ

    ShanghaiBJJ Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2006
    Messages:
    3,319
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Shanghai
    The question is, where does the sweep start, meaning the actual technique that breaks the opponent balance and tips him over. In your case, it is you grabbing his hip/ hugging him and then pushing into him. That grip starts when you are on your knees. At that point it is a new situation and it does not even matter that you played guard before.

    It is not even debatable.
     
  18. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    4,215
    Likes Received:
    1,777
    Most of the scoring situations are clear.
    But there are a ton of corner cases because the rule book sucks.
    A lot of the things are not defined in the rule book itself and it looks like it was created by just piling rules and not trying to create a clear rule set.
     
  19. JenStark

    JenStark Blue Belt

    Joined:
    May 31, 2013
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    97
    Well, in training (and some competitions as well) I will often go from inverted guard to knee wrestling in pursuit of a single or double leg intentionally. I do have to break grips for that though...

    I guess that I should just stop using this tecnique, even if I think it should be a valid way to flip my opponent.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.