I was limited by bicep strength

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by yomon, Sep 30, 2005.

  1. yomon

    yomon Green Belt

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    ok so last week i switched from hanstand pushups from the floor to elevated between 2 chairs. First attempt i got out 3 reps total all singles, i felt sad. My main problem was that i was sticking at the lowest point and the day after i noticed my biceps felt like they were torn they were so sore.

    So i tried again this week and i can crank out 3 in a row in one set 2 in the next and 2 singles. based on the fact that my biceps were the only thing sore last week from this and my numbers have doubbled since then i'd say bicep strength was definatly limiting me.

    it's weird i never thought bicep strength could actualy be a limit to anything other then a curl motion.
     
  2. Urban

    Urban Savage Mystic

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    Sometimes my biceps hurt after I do KB swing and catches... does that mean it's limiting them? no. It means they don't have sufficient GPP to handle the workload without muscle soreness... nothing more.
     
  3. yomon

    yomon Green Belt

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    but if biceps got noticably sore more so then any other muscle from that session does that not indicate that in that specific session that the biceps were the weak link? I'm not saying that "OMG i felt my biceps get worked this must be a god bicep exercise!" I'm just saying "wholy crap they were actual a limiting factor for once."
     
  4. graedy

    graedy Brown Belt

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    I did Curls to increase my chinup number when i noticed, that my bicep was always the first muscle to give up. And it worked.
     
  5. anvar

    anvar Guest

    When ever I do a high intensity or volume pullup workout the crook of my arms always have the DOMS...never my lats.
     
  6. Wild Dan Hibiki

    Wild Dan Hibiki Black Belt

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    woah man, hand stand pushups on 2 chairs? are you crazy? isnt that like unsafe practice?
     
  7. yomon

    yomon Green Belt

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    i still do it against a wall. anything else would just be crazy.
     
  8. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    This is a tough question, Yomon. But I don't think your biceps limited your reps. Why? If I'm visualizing the movement correctly, your bicep isn't involved in the concentric portion of the lift. I'm guessing you failed on the push-up, not the letting down, am I right? If that's the case, the deal is probably- like Urban said- your overall bicep GPP just isn't used to bearing a load that heavy. I imagine it would be tremendously difficult to balance (especially if you're new to this exercise), so I'm guessing you were letting yourself down slower than usual to maintain control.

    That being said, I still think it's possible your biceps can limit you in a complex movement (it just doesn't usually happen) for the reason they're a part of the movement, and if they fail completely, even the larger muscles won't be able to compensate because they rely on the chain.

    I'm absolutely, positively, 100% not sure about any of what I just said.
     
  9. SmashiusClay

    SmashiusClay Avatar of Cyttorak

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    This just seems a bit odd, for one thing I dont see why your biceps should hurt after doing hand stand pushups. The only thing I can think off the top of my head that could cause them damage in that motion is that you've switched to using two chairs so I guess you're using a greater ROM, if true it could be that you went too low and this put a lot of pressure on the bicep. Whether true or not i'd be careful about doing them off chairs and going too low as this can really damage your shoulders.

    Ok, stopped being a pleb and reread your post, if you're sticking at the bottom this was probably the problem and if I were you I'd simply increase my ROM more slowly.
     
  10. wasptrash

    wasptrash cynical swine

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    Your biceps didn't strengthen that much after one training session to account for that type of increase. You started a new exercise and noticed good gains from one session to the next...does this seem that odd? It shouldn't. Strength increases tend to be noted whenever a new movement is introduced generally from an increase in intermuscular coordination.
     
  11. Rjkd12

    Rjkd12 Certified Bastard

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    Your biceps could be the limiting factor either indirectly either because of stabalization or because of you possibly not having mature motor program for the movement.

    First, technically/textbook, there should be no bicep involvement at all. On the up portion your triceps/shoulders maybe a bit of chest should do the work and on the way down the same groups but just an eccentric contraction. But you are not a machine and your body does make mistakes and needs to be balanced.

    So, it is possible your biceps are used for stabalization of the joints and might have first failed and that would cause different/more stress on the bigger more important working muscles which would tire them out faster. This is unlikely though, IMO.

    I think it is more possible that you are not comfortable with the movement yet and you have a lot of co-contraction going on amoung other things. If you pause on the way down you may be activating your biceps quite a bit. Additionally when you fatigue your body may start to activate many muscles in the attempt to complete the lift, so your biceps, forearms, neck extensors and even that little muscle in your foot that always cramps might be signaled to go to a complete contraction.

    I bet with doing the movement more often and getting a better motor program from the brain this will stop. I am not a personal trainer though so I am just extrapolating from what I have learned in school. There might be others that understand more.
     
  12. rickdog

    rickdog Purple Belt

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    This is not a tought question. Urban you are 100% right. It is as simple as what you just said.

    Please read what Urban said and don't try to overcomplicate something so simple.
     
  13. yomon

    yomon Green Belt

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    this is very interesting! I have never heard that before but have always thought that something like this was going on. Seams to explain why my lower abs and lower back are sore from doing this yesterday.
     
  14. CrazyAZNRedneck

    CrazyAZNRedneck Orange Belt

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    I agree with Urban, too. In fact, I agree with him MORE. I think Urban's so right, that he should dictate not only exercise advice, but also everything else I do in life as well...

    Geez, form a thought of your own for once.
     
  15. Rjkd12

    Rjkd12 Certified Bastard

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    Not everybody is happy with a mundane boring simple answer. Some people are intrigued and not satisfied until they actually understand something completely. If something is more complicated than you want don't read it.

    Just to clarify I"m not commenting on Urbans comment nor am I calling it mundane/simple etc.
     
  16. rickdog

    rickdog Purple Belt

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    Ok you go on believing what you want. Keep wondering why you are weak and limp wristed. My guess would be that it is because you spend all your time speculating over something instead of hitting the weights. How's that for an original thought...... "GEEZ"
     
  17. rickdog

    rickdog Purple Belt

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    Can your whole "post" be considered an oxymoron. What exactly is it you were trying to say?
     
  18. Rjkd12

    Rjkd12 Certified Bastard

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    I was saying that many times a few people will discuss a topic into a decent amount of detail, sometimes over the heads of other readers. There is always one person who says "who cares, just lift weights and you'll be fine." If you think its too much info, don't post and go read something else.

    You said
    Personally I think it is a complicated subject. Why did they? How vast is your knowledge of physiology and neuroscience? I think solving the water problem in India is easy, give them water. I think so because I have zero understanding of the topic. The more you know, the more you realize you don't know.

    This also shows the same thing,
    To me I don't think I'm overcomplicating it. Is Louie Simmons overcomplicating things? What about all the other people who have invented new routines? We wouldn't have the routines we follow if nobody ever "overcomplicated" things.

    Now, the last part of what I said was to clarify one thing. I was commenting in rickdogs comment, I was in no way stating that what Urban said was mundane or boring.

    Do you understand?
     
  19. ENTROPY

    ENTROPY Purple Belt

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    I feel a high degree of tension in my biceps when performing max % dips and deadlifts which prompted me to start doing hammer and barbell curls about 2 years ago.

    On multiple occasions, I
     
  20. rickdog

    rickdog Purple Belt

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    Yours was a well thought out post and I respect that. I still see nothing wrong with seconding what somebody else says. Do I understand everything about physiology and neuroscience? not even close.

    The point is that I do see people overcomplicating alot of things in weightlifting. In my experience it has been the guys that talk about trying this and that and gain a greater "understanding" about the muscles, are the ones who have the least results, again thi8s is my personal experience, obviously not the case all the time.

    Maybe my frustration in those situations lead me to be hasty in a quick response. I have no problem with Yomon's original post and maybe, at times, I oversimplify.
     

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