I Truly Hate the Supplement Industry

[StrikerStatus]

Muscle Milk has a LOT of sugar and other garbage additives. I would rather obtain my carbs from better sources. And Muscle Milk is just to damn expensinve for how many servings. For the same price I get 63 serving with Myofusion with 25 grams of protein a scoop. If Muscle Milk works for you than great but I honestly believe they spend more money of flavoring than they do on quality.

It has six grams of sugar; that is nothing. Otherwise good post.

 

[livingdeadmoose]

It has six grams of sugar; that is nothing. Otherwise good post.

Thanks for correcting me. Either way I just think it's a low grade protein that attracts buyers more with a cool name and sweet flavoring.

 

[StrikerStatus]

Thanks for correcting me. Either way I just think it's a low grade protein that attracts buyers more with a cool name and sweet flavoring.

True. There are more cost effective powders out there. What I do not understand is why Cytosport does not put more marketing into Cytomax, the only sports drink with lactate (polylactate) in it. There was a study on this a few years ago that showed some fairly significant oxidation differences between this and other sports drinks. Yet, they have Muscle Milk, Muscle Milk RTD, Muscle Milk Lite (Gay), MONSTER Milk, Muscle Milk Collegiate.

TS, you live in Red Bluff huh? I am at Chico State, born and raised here. November 15th is Sierra Nevada 30th Anniversary Party FYI.

 

[livingdeadmoose]

True. There are more cost effective powders out there. What I do not understand is why Cytosport does not put more marketing into Cytomax, the only sports drink with lactate (polylactate) in it. There was a study on this a few years ago that showed some fairly significant oxidation differences between this and other sports drinks. Yet, they have Muscle Milk, Muscle Milk RTD, Muscle Milk Lite (Gay), MONSTER Milk, Muscle Milk Collegiate.

TS, you live in Red Bluff huh? I am at Chico State, born and raised here. November 15th is Sierra Nevada 30th Anniversary Party FYI.

I'll have to look into next time I'm at work. Thanks for the info. But yea companies always have to make the light version for those soccer moms who don't want to "bulk up". I used to take Cytogainer back in the day which was pretty good. Only thing I like by them.

 

[Madmick]

Muscle Milk has a LOT of sugar and other garbage additives. I would rather obtain my carbs from better sources. And Muscle Milk is just to damn expensinve for how many servings. For the same price I get 63 serving with Myofusion with 25 grams of protein a scoop. If Muscle Milk works for you than great but I honestly believe they spend more money of flavoring than they do on quality.

Livingdead, you're not paying close enough attention.

First of all, don't examine the price per serving. That's a horrible measuring stick as there isn't a standardized serving size in the supplement industry. Instead, measure your cost per weight. I've already acknowledged that Muscle Milk costs an additional $4 per pound (which is wrong...actually, it's just $2/lb), and apparently this isn't an issue for me while for you it is. That's fine, but I don't see the cost being so exorbitant that it justifies a serious censure. $10/lb is not at all unreasonable or garrish in the protein world. BTW, I noticed the 2lb canisters of Myofusion were $20 at Bodybuilding.com. That means to achieve the same flavor variation- which is a big deal for me- you end up paying $10/lb for either product. They cost exactly the same from where I'm buying. So your first major objection is void.

Second, Muscle Milk is no higher in sugar than Myofusion. Muscle Milk contains 4g of sugar per 300 calories, and Myofusion contains 4g per 315 calories. That's virtually identical. Furthermore, MM contains only 16g of carbohydrates per this amount while MF contains 10g; however, MM contains double the amount of dietary fiber in that load. I have a feeling someone informed you about "maltodextrin" being a poor carb in terms of glycemic index, but failed to enlighten you that maltodextrin is just a "glucose polymer" (listed on the Myofusion). Gaspari and GNC have fooled a number of the posters in here, I believe, by simply calling a rose by another name. Keep your eye on the ball and you will see that the two products have the same amount of sugar while MM contains about 12g of non-fibrous carbs compared to MF's 8g. What's the difference in net glycemic load, here, do you think? Whatever it is, I can assure you that it's insignificant (and there's a chance MM is lower since the fiber will lower its GI).

If the lower percentage of protein by weight is an issue for you, then fine, but it isn't an issue for me. I'm not in a weight-loss phase. If you examine my post history, you'll notice that I once argued against the recommendation of MM during restricted calorie phases; I favored not using it because of the higher fat content. Nevertheless, this will only make a difference to the most spartan dietary phase (and athlete). The truth is that the difference in the macronutrient scheme between supplement powders will always remain a minor contributor to your overall dietary scheme since at least 80% of the calories you ingest should come from food you chew. Also, I should point out that although MM contains 12g of fat in a 300 calorie serving compared to 6g of fat in a MF 315 calorie serving...80% of the fats in MM are MCT's. There has been some research to indicate that MCT's either increase a person's metabolism during digestion (or are metabolized differently). MCT's also have a lower energy density at 8.3 calories/gram (typical fat carries 9 calories/gram). Since ~9g/12g in MM are MCT's and less calorically dense, the overall caloric density of MM in relation to MF becomes less significant.

But, in any case, as I pointed out, I elect MM over stricter protein powders like MF because I'm willing to eat slightly leaner at the table. You're squabbling over 6g of fat while an 8 oz. chicken breast contains 32g of fat. The industry has you completed misdirected. I apply my philosophy- of maintaining proportionate perception- to the management of my funds in my diet: I usually wait for chicken breast to hit $1.29/lb-$1.69/lb where I live before I buy several cartons (and it hits this price regularly). Now that's cheap protein. In fact, if you look at the total amount of money I spend per gram of protein, I bet I have you beat.

TS, you live in Red Bluff huh? I am at Chico State, born and raised here. November 15th is Sierra Nevada 30th Anniversary Party FYI.

Where do you train? Standalone? That's Glen Cordoza's gym. I really kind of wish I lived in Chico right now so I could train there. My friend Sam Sleezer's a senior instructor there.

 

[hapki]

the whole supplment industry is not regulated. so i tend to go with reputable companies, whatever that is... any joe blow can start a supplment company and sell any bullshit products.

 

[shera]

Wasn't there a thread about Consumer Labs analysis showing Muscle Milk to have large quantities of harmful heavy metals?

 

[livingdeadmoose]

Livingdead, you're not paying close enough attention.

First of all, don't examine the price per serving. That's a horrible measuring stick as there isn't a standardized serving size in the supplement industry. Instead, measure your cost per weight. I've already acknowledged that Muscle Milk costs an additional $4 per pound (which is wrong...actually, it's just $2/lb), and apparently this isn't an issue for me while for you it is. That's fine, but I don't see the cost being so exorbitant that it justifies a serious censure. $10/lb is not at all unreasonable or garrish in the protein world. BTW, I noticed the 2lb canisters of Myofusion were $20 at Bodybuilding.com. That means to achieve the same flavor variation- which is a big deal for me- you end up paying $10/lb for either product. They cost exactly the same from where I'm buying. So your first major objection is void.

Second, Muscle Milk is no higher in sugar than Myofusion. Muscle Milk contains 4g of sugar per 300 calories, and Myofusion contains 4g per 315 calories. That's virtually identical. Furthermore, MM contains only 16g of carbohydrates per this amount while MF contains 10g; however, MM contains double the amount of dietary fiber in that load. I have a feeling someone informed you about "maltodextrin" being a poor carb in terms of glycemic index, but failed to enlighten you that maltodextrin is just a "glucose polymer" (listed on the Myofusion). Gaspari and GNC have fooled a number of the posters in here, I believe, by simply calling a rose by another name. Keep your eye on the ball and you will see that the two products have the same amount of sugar while MM contains about 12g of non-fibrous carbs compared to MF's 8g. What's the difference in net glycemic load, here, do you think? Whatever it is, I can assure you that it's insignificant (and there's a chance MM is lower since the fiber will lower its GI).

If the lower percentage of protein by weight is an issue for you, then fine, but it isn't an issue for me. I'm not in a weight-loss phase. If you examine my post history, you'll notice that I once argued against the recommendation of MM during restricted calorie phases; I favored not using it because of the higher fat content. Nevertheless, this will only make a difference to the most spartan dietary phase (and athlete). The truth is that the difference in the macronutrient scheme between supplement powders will always remain a minor contributor to your overall dietary scheme since at least 80% of the calories you ingest should come from food you chew. Also, I should point out that although MM contains 12g of fat in a 300 calorie serving compared to 6g of fat in a MF 315 calorie serving...80% of the fats in MM are MCT's. There has been some research to indicate that MCT's either increase a person's metabolism during digestion (or are metabolized differently). MCT's also have a lower energy density at 8.3 calories/gram (typical fat carries 9 calories/gram). Since ~9g/12g in MM are MCT's and less calorically dense, the overall caloric density of MM in relation to MF becomes less significant.

But, in any case, as I pointed out, I elect MM over stricter protein powders like MF because I'm willing to eat slightly leaner at the table. You're squabbling over 6g of fat while an 8 oz. chicken breast contains 32g of fat. The industry has you completed misdirected. I apply my philosophy- of maintaining proportionate perception- to the management of my funds in my diet: I usually wait for chicken breast to hit $1.29/lb-$1.69/lb where I live before I buy several cartons (and it hits this price regularly). Now that's cheap protein. In fact, if you look at the total amount of money I spend per gram of protein, I bet I have you beat.

Where do you train? Standalone? That's Glen Cordoza's gym. I really kind of wish I lived in Chico right now so I could train there. My friend Sam Sleezer's a senior instructor there.

Actually I am trying to get bigger. I am a thrower in the highland games and I need the extra weight. But I only want protein from my powders. When it comes to carbs/fats supplement companies normally get those from really cheap sources. But it's not just the sugar content, it's all the artificial flavoring used in MM. Myofusion has the least garbage additives content when it comes to the major supp companies. But like I said, to each his own. Out of all the stupid things to argue about on sherdog, protein powders is the most retarded reason.

 

[Mihow]

Second, Muscle Milk is no higher in sugar than Myofusion. Muscle Milk contains 4g of sugar per 300 calories, and Myofusion contains 4g per 315 calories. That's virtually identical. Furthermore, MM contains only 16g of carbohydrates per this amount while MF contains 10g; however, MM contains double the amount of dietary fiber in that load. I have a feeling someone informed you about "maltodextrin" being a poor carb in terms of glycemic index, but failed to enlighten you that maltodextrin is just a "glucose polymer" (listed on the Myofusion). Gaspari and GNC have fooled a number of the posters in here, I believe, by simply calling a rose by another name. Keep your eye on the ball and you will see that the two products have the same amount of sugar while MM contains about 12g of non-fibrous carbs compared to MF's 8g. What's the difference in net glycemic load, here, do you think? Whatever it is, I can assure you that it's insignificant (and there's a chance MM is lower since the fiber will lower its GI). .

MYOFUSION
Calories 147.00
Calories from Fat 27.00
Total Fat 3.00 g 5%
Saturated Fat 0.50 g 3%
Trans Fat 0.00 g
Cholesterol 30.00 mg 10%
Sodium 60.00 mg 3%
Potassium 210.00 mg 6%
Total Carbohydrate 5.00 g 2%
Dietary Fiber 1.00 g 4%
Sugars 2.00 g
Protein 25.00 g 50%
Calcium 250.00 mg 25%
Vitamin A (as Retinyl Palmitate) 1.25 IU 0%
Vitamin C (as Ascorbic Acid) 15.00 mg 25%
Vitamin D (as Cholecalciferol) 100.00 IU 25%
Vitamin E (as dl-alpha Tocopheryl Acetate) 8.00 IU 27%
Vitamin K 28.00 mcg 35%
Thiamin (as Thiamin Mononitrate) 0.53 mg 35%

MUSCLE MILK
Calories 348.00
Calories from Fat 162.00
Total Fat 18.00 g 28%
Saturated Fat 4.00 g 24%
Cholesterol 3.00 mg 1%
Sodium 200.00 mg 8%
Potassium 595.00 mg 17%
Total Carbohydrate 12.00 g 4%
Dietary Fiber 2.00 g 8%
Sugars 1.00 g
Protein 32.00 g 64%
Phosphorus 330.00 33%
Magnesium 132.00 33%
Calcium 330.00 33%
Iron 5.94 33%
Vitamin A 1650.00 33%
Vitamin C 198.00 33%
Vitamin D 132.00 33%
Vitamin E 9.90 33%
Thiamine 26.40 33%
Niacin 6.60 33%
Folic Acid 132.00 33%
Vitamin B-12 1.98 33%
Biotin 99.00 33%
Pantothenic Acid 3.30 33%
Iodine 49.50 33%
Zinc 4.95 33%
Copper 0.66 33%
Chromium 100.00 mcg 83%


So 18g of fat compared to 4.5 grams for 35g of protein.
340 cals. compared to 200.

If you want to call MM a rose, go ahead, people love it and so do you. But to say these two products are exactly the same, or 'the same rose by a different name' nonsense, you are wrong. I know my opinion doesn't matter because I like GNC and don't think they are gods wraith for our sins, but still ...

 

[StrikerStatus]

Livingdead, you're not paying close enough attention.



Where do you train? Standalone? That's Glen Cordoza's gym. I really kind of wish I lived in Chico right now so I could train there. My friend Sam Sleezer's a senior instructor there.

I used to train at Standalone, now just Strength and Conditioning with a mountain of school. But before that out at Nor-Cal JJ; and The Rock before that. Sammy used to be the boxing coach out in Durham. Very good boxer. Yeah Glen used to train there but he moved to Las Vegas about a year ago to train at Xtreme Couture.

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Which of the nutrients are junk nutrients? You've made several strong statements here, and have provided absolutely nothing to back them up. You sound like the other guy who pretended to know something when he really didn't know much.

Furthermore, I said 95% of the industry is junk. I've referenced the 4 supplements/foods I take: protein, creatine, fish oil, and multivitamin. And I don't think the fact that I don't buy the absolute cheapest protein on the market makes me a tool; those in this thread implying that are ridiculous. If cost is your sole factor for judgment as a consumer, then I'd opine you're not a very sophisticated (or intelligent) consumer. I also don't see the difference between buying it at Bodybuilding.com or anywhere else; they all sling the same stuff.

Are you serious mick.
Where do we begin.
Proteins: Evopro (custom protein), peptide and amino acid matrix designed to closely reflect the nitrogen components and ratios found in human mother

 

[Madmick]

Are you serious mick.

Yes, quite serious.

First, ingredients on an FDA label (even in parentheses, like blends) must be listed in descending order according to predominance. As I've already pointed out in this thread (and you apparently missed), Cytosport declares that 80% of the fats in Muscle Milk are MCT's, so I don't understand how you made the mistake of believing MCT's (along with sunflower oil) comprised the least weight of all the fats when they were listed as the primary and secondary fats in the blend. Futhermore, canola oil is arguably the second most healthy oil behind extra virgin olive oil, so your criticism wouldn't have held much weight even if it were accurate.

As for protein: EvoPro's primary protein is Casein; Myofusion's primary protein is WPC (whey protein concentrate). These are the cheapest kinds of protein. In your analysis you complain that EvoPro's proteins are "of a low filtration quality." I'm guessing that you've read Will Brink's article, The Whey It Is. That's a fine article, but I prefer: Not All Proteins are Created Equal. The main criticism from Brink's article against ion-exchange filtered WPC's is that they lack certain biological factors like the IGF subfractions and Lactoferrin (not always true anymore...the article is dated). These are both present in Muscle Milk: the former in the colostrum. I don't know if MM is ion-filtered or micro-filtered, but I do know these are present in it...furthermore, even though I don't know the quantity present in MM, neither do you in Myofusion. So another of your criticisms falls flat. The most concrete evidence that we have is that EvoPro is 80% protein by base weight, and Myofusion is only 64% (both containing added lipids and flavoring), so that in itself is probably an indication that the filtration of EvoPro is more refined.

As per whey vs. casein, this has been done to death (with almost no relevant studies), but there are 2 things every D&S forumgoer should know: (1) the suspected limiting factor in casein's anabolic potential is leucine, one of the BCAA's, and (2) much more importantly, we know that whey + casein is superior to either whey or casein for both anabolic and anti-catabolic purposes. Here's a succinct article on the topic:
Whey vs. Casein Protein - Nutrition Express Articles
Muscle Milk and Myofusion are both intelligently diversified. Personally, I don't ingest my powder only peri-workout, so I consider the predominance of casein an advantage. Besides, if my focus was on my amino acid pool during this time frame, I wouldn't take anything close to Myofusion...I'd take a powder with hydrolyzed protein and a shitload of sugar.

Myofusion and Muscle Milk are made from the same crap. Basically, your only concrete criticism of Muscle Milk is that it's 43% protein while Myofusion is 64% protein. Great. That seems a bit silly to me since you could do a whole lot better than 64%, but I already pointed out why I don't care about that, and it's really not that important in the context of your overall diet, or even a 300-calorie serving of either powder. I addressed these objections in my post to Moose.

It sounds like you guys formed a Muscle Milk lynch mob a while back, and just fucking abandoned reason. Take the sheets off your heads, please.

 

[Madmick]

So 18g of fat compared to 4.5 grams for 35g of protein.
340 cals. compared to 200.
If you want to call MM a rose, go ahead, people love it and so do you. But to say these two products are exactly the same, or 'the same rose by a different name' nonsense, you are wrong.

You're a poor reader, Mihow.

My comment on that was in reference to the repeated implications that Muscle Milk somehow had "bad carbs" while Myofusion's (presumably) weren't that way, but the only difference between the predominant carbs of the two powders that one could apprehend from the labels is that Muscle Milk lists "Maltodextrin" (a term familiar to almost any on this board) while Myofusion lists "Glucose Polymer" (just a more esoteric term for the same substance aimed at misleading and confusing casualists, IMO).

I was also alluding to the post you made earlier (#58, http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/i-truly-hate-supplement-industry-1392855/index6.html#post44788079) where you pasted the nutrition labels of GNC's fish oil and Kirkland's fish oil, and posed the astoundingly scientific hippie rhetorical question, "You tell me, which products look like you want to use it more?" I pointed out that although "Vegetable Acetoglycerides" sound healthier to an uneducated ear; they are actually no less semi-synthetic than the binders listed for the Kirkland brand.

 

[Madmick]

Out of all the stupid things to argue about on sherdog, protein powders is the most retarded reason.

Maybe a close second to Justin Bieber.

 

[Blackice]

.

Futhermore, canola oil is arguably the second most healthy oil behind extra virgin olive oil, so your criticism wouldn't have held much weight even if it were accurate.

.

Please explain to me how Canola oil is a healthy oil. That's NOT what it says in the thread 10 oils and how to use them thread. I find it difficult to believe that rapeseed oil is even remotely comparable to extra virgin olive oil. Looking at the comparison in that thread there's a big difference. It's highly refined and not a recommended oil. As for sunflower oil..it's the WORST oil. Maybe Muscle Milk tastes good, I don't know, I've never tried it, but personally..I wouldn't want shit like canola or sunflower oil in my protein powder no matter how small the amount.

 

[Mihow]

You're a poor reader, Mihow.

My comment on that was in reference to the repeated implications that Muscle Milk somehow had "bad carbs" while Myofusion's (presumably) weren't that way, but the only difference between the predominant carbs of the two powders that one could apprehend from the labels is that Muscle Milk lists "Maltodextrin" (a term familiar to almost any on this board) while Myofusion lists "Glucose Polymer" (just a more esoteric term for the same substance aimed at misleading and confusing casualists, IMO).

I was also alluding to the post you made earlier (#58, http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/i-truly-hate-supplement-industry-1392855/index6.html#post44788079) where you pasted the nutrition labels of GNC's fish oil and Kirkland's fish oil, and posed the astoundingly scientific hippie rhetorical question, "You tell me, which products look like you want to use it more?" I pointed out that although "Vegetable Acetoglycerides" sound healthier to an uneducated ear; they are actually no less semi-synthetic than the binders listed for the Kirkland brand.

I said nothing about the carb content of MM. You called Myofusion and MM basically the same and I said they are not. Yes, you babbled on about carbs for a while but completely ignored every other comparison to be made. About the fish oil, yes I showed their are more other ingredients in Kirkland's brand but you completely missed the point of how the EPA difference per pill there is.

 

[shera]

This is why after I won't buy Muscle Milk.

The samples of Muscle Milk Chocolate powder we tested contained all four heavy metals, and levels of three metals in the product were among the highest of all in our tests. Average cadmium levels of 5.6

 

[shera]

Seriously, why the fawk is there cadmium, lead, and mercury in their protein powder? Are they sourced from a protein farm in China using the same factory for battery manufacture?

 

[Revok]

Please explain to me how Canola oil is a healthy oil. That's NOT what it says in the thread 10 oils and how to use them thread. I find it difficult to believe that rapeseed oil is even remotely comparable to extra virgin olive oil. Looking at the comparison in that thread there's a big difference. It's highly refined and not a recommended oil. As for sunflower oil..it's the WORST oil. Maybe Muscle Milk tastes good, I don't know, I've never tried it, but personally..I wouldn't want shit like canola or sunflower oil in my protein powder no matter how small the amount.

It's an okay mono with a high smoke point. Smoke points are a very important factor in using the right oils for cooking, and sometimes you have to compromise a little. Canola/rapeseed may not be the perfect choice for your salad, but it does have an excellent heat tolerance at ~400 degrees F and thus for high temperature cooking it wins out over olive oils (which smoke around 300). In the long run, you'd be much healthier with canola in your wok than with rancid olive, dig?

I think the 10 Oils... thread rather overestimates the "risk" of canola. It's a very useful, neutral taste oil and, like pretty much everything else, is healthful in moderation. A little bit in your MM isn't going to kill you.

 

[Mihow]

Seriously, why the fawk is there cadmium, lead, and mercury in their protein powder? Are they sourced from a protein farm in China using the same factory for battery manufacture?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say there is heavy metals in most things you consume.