Social I thought sex and gender were supposed to be two separate things?

[IamStryker]

Then, I empathize for you, and it sounds like you're working in a shitty environment. (no jab intended) But honestly, does something really come from them reporting you if you say the wrong pronoun? Or if you only use his name instead of a pronoun you get in trouble? Really?
I'll do names and male/female pronouns..but I won't do the 'they' shit.

If you're not working in the medical field, then there is no reason why you would ever be required to use 'birthing person". It would make sense if you're delivering babies from Elliot Page.
And as a far lefty....i would never use the term 'birthing people' or 'latinx'..so, that's why I don't understand all of this doom and gloom you guys like to warn about, as if you don't go with every full retard SJW tweet campaign, you're going to lose your job.
how many people are going around calling people "They" ?



As I was saying to another poster, you guys are stuck on this word when it is the least important thing about trans people. It's much more about an ability to live their life in the way that aligns with their gender identity. You can call them a unicorn or demiboy for all it matters. It's the least important aspect of the whole thing.
You're acting as if people are going to forget what male and female mean in a biological sense because trans people exist.



It isn't the same thing, which is why I asked you what transgenderism is. We have components in all of us that are male and female, and those components are not all the same in every person. People accept the idea that we can be born with physical abnormalities and rarities, but all of the inside stuff gets perfectly ratioed every time?
Besides that, part of what defines a man and a woman to society is based off of our beliefs, so it makes sense to acknowledge people how they want to be acknowledged for that.
You can't identify as another race if there's nothing inside of you of that race. Your age is your age. It's not the same because we're more than just dicks and vaginas.
It's late where i am, and i need some sleep. but cheers, we were able to have a cool chat for once.

Thanks, it sucked having to sometimes use they/them sometimes when I disagree fundamentally with it. There isn't much I can do because my workplace is very pro lgbtq. I can't say for sure what would happen if a client complained about me and claimed I was transphobic because it hasn't happened yet but I did ask a higher up once and they claimed that I wouldn't be fired but they would send me to a training course.

I'm not in a medical profession but some people are and will have to use these gender neutral terms. If you have an issue with some of this as a very open minded leftist then maybe you can see why conservatives have big issues with it.

People absolutely are forgetting what male and female means as evidenced by the dictionary updating the definitions. They usually claim that sex is a spectrum so this does make sense. All of this leads to the issues with bathrooms and sports. My position is that its bad for society to cater to this small group. They can be free to live how they want without the rest of the world serving their every request.

No I disagree. The words man/woman and male/female are used to refer to biology the vast vast majority of the time. It's really only the woke crowd that uses them differently.

There is nothing inside of me that is female. I don't even know what you mean by that. I have testes that produce small gametes and that makes me male. That is the reality.

This is the same as age/race/species. As you agreed we can not change our age and that is exactly the argument conservatives use for sex. How you identify does not change our factual biology. People can live as masculine and feminine as they want but when they want to be treated exactly like the biological sex that they are not it's a problem. Cheers.

 

[Phlog]

man, i keep hearing this shit and i roll my eyes every time. it's like you guys are quoting from the holy scripture of trans, without thinking about what you're saying.

intersex conditions and the like aren't separate genders. they are genetic and developmental abnormalities. it is plain to understand a simple word as abnormality - deviation from a repeatable, autonomous pattern - in this case the pattern being the male-female binary.

Somehow people seem to act like the word abnormality has somehow lost its' value because feelings. it has not. there are a multitude of developmental abnormalities - genetic male with full testosterone production yet lacking the androgen receptors to metabolize, that is "masculinize" the tissues properly. there's pituitary gland developmental abnormalities that hamper the body's natural puberty launch and hormonal development which lead to numerous conditions out of which most transsexuals come out of. and so on, and on, and on. there is no mystery about the whole thing, each of these conditions is carefully catalogued and observed scientifically, and assigned within a scientific category, in this case the category of a binary male or female development that has gone wrong.

if a person is born with a third eye, or hand, or leg, due to a well-documented sexual development abnormality, we don't go around saying a new species of human, the three armed men, has appeared.
what we are dealing with is persons that have been subjected to sexual development abnormalities that have regulated their hormone production in such a way as to lead to the sense of difference, which i can understand, but lacking the reality of actual autonomous category outside the male-female binary. if such a category exists, they would be in the same category as people born without legs let's say - genetic development abnormalities. Do we go around pretending people born without legs somehow have legs, or that they are a distinct category of legless humans?

stop mindlessly parroting the muh bbut bbbut there's intersex, or , or...therefore.
it sounds uneducated as hell.

I'm not parroting anything mindlessly, I studied sex and gender back in the 90s prior woke and science based.

You made an absolute statement: "Biological sex is not a spectrum."

Which I know for a fact to not be the case. Now if you're arguing that the spectrum is mostly a normative distribution then I'd agree, it's about a factor of 10 for noticeable deviation.

You seem to be arguing with what you think I think, rather than what I type, which is bad idea because you have predicted or inferred badly.

 

[Phlog]

I have two responses to this. Firstly even if you were correct about hermaphrodites what would that have to do with a male who is not a hermaphrodite but still claims to be a type of female?

As I said before biological sex is not a spectrum with lots of types. There are two sexes that virtually everyone falls into. You either produce small gametes which makes you male or large gametes which makes you female. Female anomalies having XY chromosomes does not change this.

They are not common is not the same as they are not.

 

[The_Renaissance]

Thanks, it sucked having to sometimes use they/them sometimes when I disagree fundamentally with it. There isn't much I can do because my workplace is very pro lgbtq. I can't say for sure what would happen if a client complained about me and claimed I was transphobic because it hasn't happened yet but I did ask a higher up once and they claimed that I wouldn't be fired but they would send me to a training course.

I'm not in a medical profession but some people are and will have to use these gender neutral terms. If you have an issue with some of this as a very open minded leftist then maybe you can see why conservatives have big issues with it.

People absolutely are forgetting what male and female means as evidenced by the dictionary updating the definitions. They usually claim that sex is a spectrum so this does make sense. All of this leads to the issues with bathrooms and sports. My position is that its bad for society to cater to this small group. They can be free to live how they want without the rest of the world serving their every request.

No I disagree. The words man/woman and male/female are used to refer to biology the vast vast majority of the time. It's really only the woke crowd that uses them differently.

There is nothing inside of me that is female. I don't even know what you mean by that. I have testes that produce small gametes and that makes me male. That is the reality.

This is the same as age/race/species. As you agreed we can not change our age and that is exactly the argument conservatives use for sex. How you identify does not change our factually biology. People can live as masculine and feminine as they want but when they want to be treated exactly like the biological sex that they are not it's a problem. Cheers.

There was some fucking 55yr old or similar creep not that long ago who publicly stated he identified as someone in his 20s and should be recognised as such.

He was laughed at and told to fuck off. Google him


This is no different. No different. That guy still approaches women and says "I'm 25" and the women roll their eyes and say "riiiiiight.....have a good night mate".

The trannies say "I'm a woman" and lots of people do the same thing while the others agree out of fear of punishment. Its the same fantasy land charade being played and anyone with any form of common sense sees through it.

I will not partake.

I won't tell them they're mentally fucked or insult them but I will NOT say "Yes, of course you are miss".

 

[IamStryker]

You are still placing importance on "brain development" in one case (12 yr olds), and completely excluding it from the next case (trans). It doesn't matter what "stage" has been developed, the fact is that you recognize that "brain development" or someone's psychological pinnings play a huge role in what you do and do not expect of a 12 yr old.

On the contrary we place a huge amount of emphasis on brain development for trans people even more than the left. The idea that they think children should be choosing their gender at such a young age shows that the left disregards brain development when they find it convenient.

I have never disregarded brain development. If someone really does suffer from gender dysphoria I understand if they see no other choice than to transition.

Maybe not you specifically, but the overarching argument is that trans people suffer from delusions and are mentally ill precisely because of the biological fact that Susan has a penis, but feels like a woman. It's no more delusional to accept that a trans person can literally feel with every ounce of their being that they were born in to the wrong body, and that takes precedence over the physical presence of whatever sexual organs they have, than to believe that despite the physical presence of fertile gonads in a 12yr old, the mental development of that person takes utmost importance as well.

Absolutely not. This is one of the worst comparisons I have ever seen on Sherdog. These two things have so little in common its baffling you think it makes sense. A 12 year old shouldn't be getting pregnant for a ton of reasons. Their mental state being just one of them. This has nothing in common with someone being a biological male and demanding to be treated as a female just because that's how they identify.

Given you appear to speak for "all of the right", I'd be happy to post forward plenty of examples of the Sherdog Conservatives general feelings towards trans people. And a significant portion of those people believe it to be some form of mental illness that should not be pandered to. You making a statement that I'm "way off", without even offering the simplest of counter arguments tells me you don't have an argument, so why even bother responding? You just make yourself look stupid.

You are way off specifically on this post,

"You keep insisting that someone's biology tells the entire story of who that person is. "

No one on the right makes that claim. People are complex and different. This does not change anything about the issues conservatives have with catering to gender ideology. I was giving you the opportunity to back up your claim. Feel free to try to do that.

 

[IamStryker]

Oh damn, so when someone says that "John isn't a real man because X", they are referring to biology and not the social construct we call "gender" these days?

Actually yeah they are referring to a biological man in that sentence. They are saying this biological man (John) is not matching up with our perception of normal gender roles.

 

[IamStryker]

They are not common is not the same as they are not.

I haven't even verified any actual exceptions to this. Link me some.

If sex was actually a spectrum there would be a lot of examples to give but there aren't. Virtually everyone falls just fine into male (small gametes) or female (large gametes).

 

[IamStryker]

There was some fucking 55yr old or similar creep not that long ago who publicly stated he identified as someone in his 20s and should be recognised as such.

He was laughed at and told to fuck off. Google him


This is no different. No different. That guy still approaches women and says "I'm 25" and the women roll their eyes and say "riiiiiight.....have a good night mate".

The trannies say "I'm a woman" and lots of people do the same thing while the others agree out of fear of punishment. Its the same fantasy land charade being played and anyone with any form of common sense sees through it.

I will not partake.

I won't tell them they're mentally fucked or insult them but I will NOT say "Yes, of course you are miss".

It actually makes more sense to identify as a different age because your age does change over time. Your sex never changes. It's interesting that all of the leftists I interact with agree that you can not identify as another age.

 

[The_Renaissance]

It actually makes more sense to identify as a different age because your age does change over time. Your sex never changes. It's interesting that all of the leftists I interact with agree that you can not identify as another age.

You should ask them "why not"?

It's a feeling after all. I feel 25. I want to be treated as such.

No, your biology and body tells you're 40. You are 40. Feel free to introduce yourself as a 25yr old man, The Renaissance, but nobody is going to believe you or partake in your personal fantasy

 

[Kirra]

Actually yeah they are referring to a biological man in that sentence. They are saying this biological man (John) is not matching up with our perception of normal gender roles.

No. They aren't saying that he's not being manly. The statement is that he is not being a man.

Is that a statement about sex or gender?

 

[Bojka]

No. They aren't saying that he's not being manly. The statement is that he is not being a man.

Is that a statement about sex or gender?

When someone questions whether a male was behaving like a man, the idea is that he was perhaps acting like a boy. Man in this context is not synonymous with male, but, rather, with a mature male. So his maturity is being questioned, not his gender, lmao.

There is the expression 'becoming a man' with regard to a male losing his virginity. Obviously this doesn't suggest that he was a woman beforehand.

 

[esotamoc]

Elliot Page is a dude in how that person passes through society, and how people are likely to see and treat him.
Elliot Page can also potentially get pregnant. I DO see the contradiction. The existence of a contradiction doesn't cancel everything out and make all things true, or all things false. The acknowledgement is already there up top that Elliot Page isn't a biological man.
A biological man can't get pregnant, but a trans man....aka....a biological woman with a gender identity of a man....can. Would you prefer we always say this full sentence for the 2 times a year a trans person probably even has babies?

And who is saying that he is an "actual" man? I, nor anyone else didn't "forget" that Elliot was born a female. As I was saying before, the well for the conversation is already poisoned, so you're going to get the "men can get pregnant" rhetoric because there aren't any honest debates out there on the issue. People talk about these things in their own bubbles, and when they meet, they just talk past each other to score points.


You're having an impossible time of separating the biological sex from the identity of gender. This isn't complicated, you just don't like the answer because you want this neat black/white answer.
It seems like you think the entire idea of transgenderism is made up.

"Elliot Page is a dude in how that person passes through society, and how people are likely to see and treat him" some people may treat her like a dude but she is not entitled to this treatment. we dont have to play along and she is free to live her life as she pleases.

 

[mommas homeboy]

Man, conservatives are obsessed with this topic

Kind of the way you liberals are obsessed with giving little boys and girls hormone blockers and gender reassignment surgery?

It’s sad how you sick dogs are pushing this shit. Truly it is.

 

[mommas homeboy]

Are you confused as to why this is important?

No he isn’t. He’s just sick in the head. There’s no hope for guys like him.

 

[Kirra]

When someone questions whether a male was behaving like a man, the idea is that he was perhaps acting like a boy. Man in this context is not synonymous with male, but, rather, with a mature male. So his maturity is being questioned, not his gender, lmao.

There is the expression 'becoming a man' with regard to a male losing his virginity. Obviously this doesn't suggest that he was a woman beforehand.

So it's not really a reference to biology, but rather a social construct of what a male should be then?

Besides, that phrase isn't only used to refer to someone's maturity.

 

[IamStryker]

You should ask them "why not"?

It's a feeling after all. I feel 25. I want to be treated as such.

No, your biology and body tells you're 40. You are 40. Feel free to introduce yourself as a 25yr old man, The Renaissance, but nobody is going to believe you or partake in your personal fantasy

I do ask why. They usually hand wave it away as being different. One time the person said that gender is more "performative" than age.

 

[IamStryker]

No. They aren't saying that he's not being manly. The statement is that he is not being a man.

Is that a statement about sex or gender?

How did Kirra get banned? I'll answer anyway.

Yeah they use the word man instead of manly but the context is towards a biological male which is why the word man is used. Their statement is about a male and gender roles.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Even if the John Money thing wasn't real, I find it odd that people just started believing in gender theory in recent years based on absolutely nothing other than being told that this is the way things are. A big percentage of people just fell right in line with it without even questioning anything about it.

It's the phrenology of our time.
Charlatans, freaks and creeps.

 

[Phlog]

I haven't even verified any actual exceptions to this. Link me some.

If sex was actually a spectrum there would be a lot of examples to give but there aren't. Virtually everyone falls just fine into male (small gametes) or female (large gametes).

Congenital adrenal hyperplasia, 46 XY DSD, androgen insensitivity syndrome, you can be born with XO (Turner syndrome) or XXY (Klinefelter syndrome), Rokitansky syndrome, 46,XX ovotesticular DSD.

Your sex/gender are largely determined by your genes and the hormonal prenatal environment. It's really really complicated and a lot of weird shit happens. It's really not rare, uncommon at best.

We sensibly default to two genders because they are the main show, how the species continues, but because our conception of gender includes so many elements, which are all influenced by different aspects of development, you do get quite varied presentation even within the 2 normal categories.

It actually makes more sense to identify as a different age because your age does change over time. Your sex never changes. It's interesting that all of the leftists I interact with agree that you can not identify as another age.

Interesting point, it occurs to me that people will readily declare they feel a different age to their biological age. Quite a few people do indeed say they are younger, or older than they are. Sex doesn't change but gender can do if someone fucks with their hormones.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

There are two predominant sexes, there are two predominant genders, there is varience, more so in gender than sex. In the latter it's more than 1 in 10 which is significant.

buddy, what the fuck are you talking about, predominant sexes.
there's only two. there are no other.
you look silly posting dumb shit like "predominant sexes". there is no variance in sexes, there's only two, with mutations. mutations don't count as a different sex.
it's absolutely dipshit insanity to claim there's more than two sexes.
"gender" is hogwash. it's the same level of intellectual dishonesty as phrenology.