News I say told you so when I told you so. But this is really about the UFC putting out a bad product

Bend NvR Break said:
Even in the late 00s the UFC could pull 300K ppv easy. In 2025 they struggle to make that number
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Why do you say "even in"?

The late 00s was literally the peak in terms of PPVs consistently doing good numbers with a wide range of names. It was a time when the UFC was the "in" thing pop culture wise, PPVs were also much cheaper, not as easy to illegally stream and the audience wasnt being burned out with like 30+ free cards a year in addition to PPV.
 
I think you're right about ESPN. But it's equally their fault as it is the UFC's fault.

Requiring people to have a paid subscription to ESPN+ just to buy UFC events is a terrible business model. They should have made a "free" version of ESPN+ with access to extremely limited content (some token videos of older sporting events from decades past). That way all you would need is an ESPN+ account with no subscription to buy UFC events.

I think that alone would have led to more people buying ESPN+. I mean imagine expecting people to pay $12 a month for ESPN+ and then another $80 to buy UFC events. Insane.
 
Hellowhosthat said:
This era never existed and I'm not sure why people think it did.
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What are you talking about? In the early 2010s you needed an 8-1 W/L ratio to even be considered for a UFC contract. Even guys like Weidman and Cain, who came from known camps and had inside UFC ties, didn't get into the UFC until they were 8-0.
 
Bend NvR Break said:
What are you talking about? In the early 2010s you needed an 8-1 W/L ratio to even be considered for a UFC contract. Even guys like Weidman and Cain, who came from known camps and had inside UFC ties, didn't get into the UFC until they were 8-0.
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Weidman got in at 4-0 and Cain got in at 2-0

You definitely didn't need an 8-1 W/L ratio to get in in 2010 lol.
 
TheMMAnalyst said:
They (meaning “Management”) are making boatloads - two of the suits (Ari and one other investor) pocketed $275 million just from Endeavor getting taken private.
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I understand but you are going to have to reinvent the stock market to undo this. I agree with you it shouldn't be. But shareholders are going to dump if profit is transferred to fighters instead of company. When WME purchased UFC, they used the profit to offset Covid losses, to get to that 275 million. The whole system is fucked, but using the same system and turning down the profits to minimal is going to tank UFC. If MMA gets to boxing levels of % revenue sharing it's going to have everyone drop the sport. I don't see the sport isn't in a secure position to throw cash around, like lets say soccer.

Bend NvR Break said:
I remember when the UFC was full of professional fighters that has cut their teeth all over the world in other promotions. No prospects were to be found on the roster. You had to have a 8 to 1 win/loss ratio to even be considered UFC worthy.
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Yeah, the current setup where they fleeced ESPN with unknown fighters and stuck the UFC brand on them is a joke and definitely been killing the excitement of the sport. UFC being bought out by a public company that wasn't healthy turned into a leech that drained every dollar they can squeeze from the brand. The golden days were when Fertittas ran the UFC and had competition in Pride that rivaled or exceeded the quality of the UFC roster. The Fertittas were in a good financial position after the UFC 1000x in value so they could afford to give veterans of the sport do nothing jobs like Hughes or Chuck. They also pushed good events harder.
 
Hellowhosthat said:
Weidman got in at 4-0 and Cain got in at 2-0

You definitely didn't need an 8-1 W/L ratio to get in in 2010 lol.
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Both guys were hyped prospects because of their wrestling backgrounds. Look at Bo Nickal, same thing.
 
Tweak896 said:
I understand but you are going to have to reinvent the stock market to undo this. I agree with you it shouldn't be. But shareholders are going to dump if profit is transferred to fighters instead of company. When WME purchased UFC, they used the profit to offset Covid losses, to get to that 275 million. The whole system is fucked, but using the same system and turning down the profits to minimal is going to tank UFC. If MMA gets to boxing levels of % revenue sharing it's going to have everyone drop the sport. I don't see the sport isn't in a secure position to throw cash around, like lets say soccer.
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I don't disagree with your overall assessment of how now that the sport is essentially monopolized it's been forced into a "shareholder/management extraction model" that would require reinventing the stock market to change.

But I was trying to refute your points of:

"People here act like MMA is a money machine that goes direct to Dana's pocket."

It does, just not only Dana's - the Fertittas, Ari, and a bunch of other high-powered suits (i.e. Patrick Whitesell) have all made hundreds of millions and continue to make more then all the fighters do combined every year.

"The money gained has to be more than money spent, or else it will collapse."

They've grown the revenue and profits consistently for almost two decades now, but they never achieve sustainability because instead of reinvesting in the company they just take out new bank loans after paying themselves huge bonuses.

In boxing dozens of fighters year-after-year manage to get incredible paydays for tens of millions for 30+ years now. In their model they have leverage to be their own promoter, so they do that and then partner with a real promoter whose job it is to take the risk and sell/promote the fight. That means they can ask for high paydays and the partnered promoter has to assess whether they believe they can make enough money selling the fight to make it a worthy endeavor to take on the risk. Since multiple promoters do it dozens of times a year for decades it would seem there is plenty of reason to take that risk.

In the UFC the fighters have no leverage and the UFC has a monopsony, it's model that is essentially "risk-free" at this point. So they dictate the terms of everything (who you fight, when you fight, how much you fight for) to pretty much 99% of their fighters 99% of the time. In the end they haven't built it to be sustainable, they tried to make it a sport without realizing it's more of a circus (at it's best it's a true hybrid of the two, of which there is no other equivalent).

They way you make money at the circus is by having "star attractions" which is the whole point in building stars - they think that the circus itself should be the star, which only can sustain itself so long, especially when most of your attractions are monkeys flinging shit at each other. People will only buy wolf tickets to that for so long and there are only so many new suckers born each day.
 
mangokush said:
The UFC needs to trim most of the roster
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Their entire business model is centered on the bloated roster. They need hundreds of cheap fighters to pad out their 40-50 cards each year and Apex Fight Nights with unrecognizable athletes. It is shocking how many fighters on the roster, some who fight two or three times in a year, are working a full time or part time job on the side to financially support themselves and their coaches.
mangokush said:
Too many no name cans on the roster who cost the UFC money instead of making money for the UFC
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These unknown fighters make UFC the most money. UFC wants to promote the UFC more than any one fighter or fighters. So that the product that people watch is simply 'the UFC'. Not 'McGregor' or 'O'Malley'. They want fans to say "hey it's Saturday let's watch the UFC" so that no fighter can ever come close to negotiating a contract like McGregor had.
 
DecisionSplit said:
Their entire business model is centered on the bloated roster. They need hundreds of cheap fighters to pad out their 40-50 cards each year and Apex Fight Nights with unrecognizable athletes. It is shocking how many fighters on the roster, some who fight two or three times in a year, are working a full time or part time job on the side to financially support themselves and their coaches.

These unknown fighters make UFC the most money. UFC wants to promote the UFC more than any one fighter or fighters. So that the product that people watch is simply 'the UFC'. Not 'McGregor' or 'O'Malley'. They want fans to say "hey it's Saturday let's watch the UFC" so that no fighter can ever come close to negotiating a contract like McGregor had.
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Exactly, this is taking the NFL model into overdrive mode. The NFL hypes up their stars, but they expect fans to see "NFL" and immediately click to watch regardless of who is playing. That's the type of cache with the fanbase UFC has been trying to create for a while now.
 
I'm not reading all of that.. specially coming from a guy who apparently watches cartoons.

UFC is dying bro.. everyboy knows that.
 
Keep spamming cheap 125 135 145 & wmma fights
Don't invest in lhw hw
Don't be willing to pay up for big international free agents
 
Bend NvR Break said:
I said that Fox was happy to end their relationship with the UFC because Fox was losing money. A great many on Sherdog called me unflattering names.
I said that Reebok was happy to end their relationship with the UFC because they didn't get anywhere near recouping the $70 mil they paid to the UFC for exclusive sponsorship. Sherdog once again flamed me.
I've been saying for over a year now that ESPN is not happy with the UFC because the UFC ppv aren't selling. ESPN guarantees the UFC 300,000 ppv buys for every event they put on. ESPN is the one holding the bag or reaping the benefits from actually selling ppvs. If it undersells then ESPN is fucked for that event. If it oversell then they reap the rewards. Sherdog said I didn't know what I was talking about.

I'm sitting at work early with about 20 minutes to kill and Google tells me that I'd be interesting in this article.
www.essentiallysports.com

Another Twist Amid ESPN Contract Expiry as Dana White and UFC’s $1B Demand Gets Clear Message From Netflix CEO

As the ESPN deal is coming to an end, Dana White and Co. received a hint as to what Netflix thinks about acquiring UFC's broadcast rights.
www.essentiallysports.com


ESPN, on the other hand, wasn’t happy about the plummeting PPV numbers either, as opposed to what the promotion had assured its partner. “The UFC gets [paid] 300,000 pay-per-view buys as a ‘buy-in’ from ESPN. There’s no way that ESPN is getting 300,000 pay-per-view buys out of every pay-per-view, from what I was told…ESPN is frustrated because they’re not getting the pay-per-view buys that they had expected,” the New York Post’s Erich Richter had said.

Basically everything I've been saying and people have been calling me crazy (not everyone but the vast many) about I'm actually right about.

But this isn't about me. This is really about the shit product that the UFC puts on and the fact the consumers are punishing the UFC by not buying the product anymore. How can the UFC fix this issue?

Even in the late 00s the UFC could pull 300K ppv easy. In 2025 they struggle to make that number
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I thought it was a guaranteed 500k buys. 300k is still far far too much, the UFC ain't pulling close to that on average. ESPN has to be losing their ass.
 
Haven't bought a PPV since UFC 200. It's hard being a fight fan in the modern era.
 
Islam Imamate said:
I was rewatching Aldo vs Edgar 1 the other day, one of the first PPVs I bought. In addition to that legendary headliner the card also had Lil Nog vs Evans, Bigfoot vs Overeem, and Maia vs Fitch. And back then that card was not seen has having tons of star power because Aldo always struggled to sell PPVs and BRs in general were perceived as hard to market to the North American audience, in fact it underperformed IIRC. But holy hell was that a stacked card from the POV of a hardcore fan. Looking it up now even the undercard was solid, had Woodley and Dunham and Green who were all very legit back then.
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When you sit down and compare the bullshit we get today to back then, there's literally no comparison. It's not because of nostalgia either.
 
Poirierfan said:
I thought it was a guaranteed 500k buys. 300k is still far far too much, the UFC ain't pulling close to that on average. ESPN has to be losing their ass.
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It is. UFC are guaranteed 500K buys from ESPN for each PPV event. And then ESPN gets to keep the money on top of that for any additional buys. But almost no PPVs even each close to that amount. So ESPN is absolutely getting killed on losing money each PPV. They literally are on the hook to UFC for 6 to 6.5 million PPV buys every year.

It's been figured out that the UFC deal is not profitable for ESPN+/Disney. The only question is how much ESPN is willing to lose to build its subscriber base for its streaming service. Probably not enough to justify another giant multi-year contract.
 
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