I just dont understand this Brady-Rodgers stuff. Sorry

Discussion in 'Sports Bar' started by XThe GreatestX, Nov 1, 2018.

  1. jrams

    jrams Black Belt

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    Brady lead the league in passing with Deion Branch and David Givens as his two best receivers. He was a goal line stand away from the Superbowl with Reche Caldwell as his best receiver.

    Rodgers never had a receiving core as bad as the Patriots in 2006.
     
  2. Kaybee

    Kaybee C’est La Vie

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    Brady had Moss for like 1.5 seasons and Gronk misses half of every season with injuries; what the hell is that supposed to prove?

    The main argument to make for Rodgers against Brady is that Belichick is the GOAT coach while McCarthy is mediocre or even bottom tier. Both QB's have been throwing to guys at WR who don't do shit once they leave, and haven't had a true workhorse RB since the Bush administration.
     
  3. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Tough shit. Riding the pine is part of the sport. Speculating that he would have been just as great during those early years if he had been good enough to be put ahead of Favre, which the coaches clearly didn't think he was, is yet more speculation. Furthermore, this dismisses the entrenched observation (across all major sports, not just the NFL) that production and performance deteriorate sharply correlating to game-age, not just chronological age. That's a shitload of hits that Aaron never had to take while he matured in his safe little cocoon. Those are miles on the odometer.

    Tom was winning while Aaron was cheerleading.
    It's an acronym, dude. It shouldn't be hard to figure out I abbreviated "QB Passer Rating".

    Still a better metric for determining the QBs who go deep, and that's in spite of the fact QBPR doesn't have a reverse wins-value weighting built into its formula.
     
  4. rj144

    rj144 Red Belt

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    Huh? Who did they beat in the Superbowls then? Teams from their own division? I guess I wasn't paying attention who plays who in the Superbowl.
     
  5. paratiddies

    paratiddies ( o Y o )

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    Well you’ll have to provide a link because I can’t find jack shit about it unless it’s this one which looks like a complete troll job - Brady is 11th and Rodgers is 18th, both behind juggernauts such as Trubisky and Fitzmagic on the season:

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr

    Not surprised you think the best metric would be a rating system that accounted for wins, convenient since the Pats are 13-6 without Brady since he took over compared to 7-14-1 for the Rodger-less Pack. That 68.4% win rate for the Patriots is better than any other team in the league since 2001 if I’m not mistaken

    Anyway, I’m out - no one’s changing their mind over anything posted here. I jumped in when you said we couldn’t measure talent (true) but we can certainly see and appreciate it. I’ve never seen Brady do anything that I didn’t think Rodgers (or others) could do better given the same circumstances, meanwhile I see Rodgers do things every week that Brady could never dream of - just look at the 55 yarder from last night

    The GOAT said it himself when talking about how Rodgers would fare on the Pats: “He’d throw for 7,000 yards every year. He’s so much more talented than me.”
     
  6. Corona

    Corona GOAT white guy

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    Don’t think he ever had a defense as good as the patriots in 2006 either.
     
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  7. Corona

    Corona GOAT white guy

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    To your own point coaches must’ve thought Brady wasn’t as good as Bledsoe considering Brady began on the bench and only started when he did because Bledsoe almost had a career ending injury. That’s not really a fair argument since the coaches hand was forced in the case of the patriots.
     
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  8. PUO3

    PUO3 You are a can. Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Wrote a novel and literally said nothing.
     
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  9. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Your reading comprehension is failing again. I didn't assert (nor did I imply) that Tom has the higher QBPR. I just dismissed the QBR as a weaker advanced metric between the two (because it is). Unlike Win Shares or VORP formulas in basketball, and unlike OPS+ or WAR in baseball, it's an advanced stat that ESPN is hoisting on the fan base which I think weights performance too heavily based on team results. Who needs it? That's why we have win percentages and rings. I'm actually letting you off the hook by dismissing it. Why are you pursuing this?
    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/qbr_single_season.htm

    Top 50 best single-season QBR finishes all-time?
    Brady: #1, #14, #17 (tie), #24, #26, #32, #41 (2x), #46
    Rodgers: #5, #17 (tie), #38

    Cliffs: Tom Brady is the more "talented" QB by any argument but the one holding a crystal ball of emotional speculation.
     
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  10. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    No, it's fair. You are again speculating that the coaches wouldn't have put Brady ahead of Bledsoe later rather than sooner.

    Every pro-Rodgers argument in this thread is STEEPED in speculation or stats. Every pro-Brady argument is entrenched in performance and results.
     
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  11. PUO3

    PUO3 You are a can. Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I like how you say Rodgers is “stats” but Brady is “performance”. How exactly does Rodgers get those stats if not by performance?

    Your attempt to sound smarter than everyone is failing miserably.
     
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  12. paratiddies

    paratiddies ( o Y o )

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    Wow, you actually are pointing to the stat which has Trubisky and Fitz above Brady and Rodgers this year. I think it’s safe to say that a statistic which has someone with a 19-1 TD to INT ratio ranked 18th in the league is slightly flawed

    No wonder I had trouble finding it - it’s shit tier
     
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  13. Corona

    Corona GOAT white guy

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    It goes both ways, I’m “speculating” that a 6th round pick wouldn’t have took over for pro bowl qb right away if it weren’t for injury and you’re “speculating” that he would’ve took over quickly regardless.
     
  14. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    No, I'm not speculating. I'm observing what happened. You alone are speculating by attempting to hypothetically impose that reality onto Aaron's divergent reality.

    The moment you introduce speculation in this fashion I can counter with more. I speculate Aaron would have suffered a career-ending injury in those early years due to his inexperience resulting in a crippling leg injury because he didn't exercise the discipline to slide. See? Fruitless avenue.

    There is what has been, and there is what could have been. The two never meet.
     
  15. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Because he doesn't own all the best stats, and in fact not that many, almost all related to per-game or efficiency metrics, and the key "stats" he lacks by his lack of "performance" are a fistful of light fingers, a smaller trophy shelf, and a sparse ceiling of banners.

    Your effort to dismiss arguments as sophistry with a rebuttal of semantics is the true failure.
     
  16. Corona

    Corona GOAT white guy

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    All I said was the coaches/front office clearly didn’t see Brady as ready to take over just like you said about Rodgers/Favre. Here’s why I think that.

    - Brady was drafted in the 6th round in April 2000
    - Bledsoe was the starter going into the 2001 season
    - in March 2001 the patriots gave Bledsoe a TEN YEAR 100 MILLION dollar contract(a year after drafting Brady).

    I think it’s safe to “speculate” that barring a catastrophic injury(which actually happened) a 3 time pro bowler in his prime who just inked a record breaking contract wasn’t about to lose his job to a 6th round draft pick the year before.
     
  17. Madmick

    Madmick Cerebrage Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I've never seen a major sports franchise hesitate to ditch a huge contract if they thought they had a rising superstar; especially if things aren't going well.

    Fortunately, we'll get to see how Aaron holds up in his later years. We'll see if his late 30's looks anything like Brady's. No more speculation will be needed for that.
     
  18. rearnakedchoke

    rearnakedchoke Suck it!

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    It wasnt catastrophic. Bledsoe was cleared later that season and even started over brady, but in the end brady won over the job.
     
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  19. Krixes

    Krixes Black Belt

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    Rodgers doesn't know how to make the crucial short throws, he can't play within a system. He just holds the ball for 7 seconds waiting for a big play to happen all the time. You could also blame his coaches for this.
     
  20. Thad Castle v2

    Thad Castle v2 Brown Belt

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    Brady is the GOAT, SB titles > stats. Titles are more important than stats. Brady is more clutch.
     
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