I hate guard boxing

[triso]

Kforcer you completely missed the point, as did MANY others in this thread.

We are not saying that you CAN

 

[Bama Zulu]

The guard is an inferior position in the street?

Tell that to Helio.

 

[FutureBxer]

if the guy on top actually has gnp capabilities, than it is not a neutral position. this isn't grappling, its mma. if it was neutral then i guess you'd love to be under someone like fedor/sergei.

it's neutral when there are no strikes. and why would i bother trying to pass the guard risking to get subbed when i can unload in the guys face and knock him out cold?

i gotta disagree w/ some of what u said and some of what the OP said..



in pure grappling:

when you have somebody in your guard - you are in an offensive position and guy on top is in defensive.

why do you think people actually pass the guard in bjj? because when you are in somebodies guard - there are not many effective submissions and they are in a offensive position to submit you.(triangles, armbars, kimura's, etc..).

they want to keep you in their guard cuz it's safe, there isnt much a person can do... but you have lots of submission opportunities. thats also why you want to prevent somebody from regaining guard.

so guard does not equal neutral. top position in guard equals - defensive and bottom is offensive.


in MMA -

lately in MMA ... generally the guy on top is the one in the more offensive position(but this can vary depending on the grappling/submission skills of each fighter).

Guy's are getting better at defending submissions and dishing out GnP faster than people are progressing at submitting.

this is because it's a lot easier to learn to defend submissions and dish out GnP than it is to be offensive w/ submissions.

Not to mention a lot of guys in MMA train bjj w/ the gi. I agree w/ eddie bravo that training submissions w/ the gi can teach you bad habits in terms of control/sub offense when grappling MMA/no-gi.


but this doesnt necessarily mean the bottom is defensive in MMA.. just that this is the way things are turning out right now. Will it change? ehh dunno..... maybe if more people start to specialize in no-gi grappling and learning to control their opponent w/o the gi.


until then... the good GnP guys are gonna make the top position in guard an offensive one.

it can take a lot of energy to pass so most guys like to conserve and just beat the hell out of the guy from guard. Personally i would like to do both... smack the shit outta the guy and then try to pass...wont work? smack the shit outta him some more, even using it as a distraction. I think GnP from side and mount are much more damaging since the opponent cant defend as well.

 

[Matt Thornton]

i gotta disagree w/ some of what u said and some of what the OP said..



in pure grappling:

when you have somebody in your guard - you are in an offensive position and guy on top is in defensive.

why do you think people actually pass the guard in bjj? because when you are in somebodies guard - there are not many effective submissions and they are in a offensive position to submit you.(triangles, armbars, kimura's, etc..).

they want to keep you in their guard cuz it's safe, there isnt much a person can do... but you have lots of submission opportunities. thats also why you want to prevent somebody from regaining guard.

so guard does not equal neutral. top position in guard equals - defensive and bottom is offensive.

It's cool, I know you can't read every single one of my posts, but I did mention somewhere in one of my posts that I think if anything, in pure grappling, the guard is somewhat offensive.

 

[Bama Zulu]

How can it teach you bad habits if you are conciously are aware of your grips?

Take B.J. Penn for instance.

 

[Kforcer]

Is a very incorrect statement to say the least.

If so, please tell me why.

 

[Aardvark]

How can it teach you bad habits if you are conciously are aware of your grips?

It'll teach you bad habits because if you're a relatively new bjj black belt trying to establish a school in a city saturated with bjj you need a gimmick.