I don't see the controversy in Lee/Chiesa finish

DannyNL

DannyNL

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Chiesa didn't tap and he wasn't unconscious, that has to be acknowledged. But he was within 1-2 seconds of either tapping or going unconscious, so I really don't see what the big deal was. He wasn't getting out of that choke, it was a done deal.

I don't blame Yamasaki one bit for stopping it, Chiesa had that 1000 mile stare and his arms were in front of him twitching: he REALLY looked like he was unconscious. Reffing MMA is a tough job, and in the realm of referee fuck-ups I think this was really mild and in no way changed the outcome of the fight. If Chiesa was unconscious and Yamasaki took an extra 2 seconds to stop it, we'd be complaining about how dangerous Yamasaki was and how he shouldn't be reffing.

And I have to say, what an asshole Dana White is to go on Instagram and not only tear down Yamasaki's skills, but to make fun of the little heart gesture he makes as a shout out to his children. What kind of a douchebag would make fun of someone doing that for their kids? Maybe Dana should worry about doing his own job, because it seems like he has a whole roster full of angry, disgruntled fighters and more and more fighters are WILLINGLY jumping ship to Bellator by the week it seems.
 
As Big John said, it isn't the ref's purview to interpret if somebody is about to tap. That's the whole point of tapping. If you don't tap you go out. Yamasaki messed up but Dana is just a gobshite and a bully.
 
Did you watch the Herring v Kish fight? You don't know what's going to happen, and neither does the referee. That's why we let the fighters fight, and not interrupt them for no apparent reason. Did you forget the BS with the illegal elbows, too? I bet they contributed to Lee getting an advantageous position, so that should be enough there to determine Yamasaki failed at his job and the fight should be a NC.
 
That was perfect stoppage. Chiesa stopped defending while being RNC for a second and it was the moment he was going to sleep badly.
 
DannyNL said:
Chiesa didn't tap and he wasn't unconscious, that has to be acknowledged.
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That is all that needs to be said. With joint locks you can permanently damage a limb. With punches you can cause brain damage. With chokes.... nothing. I have no doubt Lee won that fight, but it was a fucking choke. Let the guy getting choked fight as long as he wants.
 
Yeah, you do.

The controversy isn't with Lee in any way; he wasn't wrong and got the win under the rules. The controversy is with the ref making the wrong call regardless of anyone's justification. It happens, and it sucks when it does, because it robs everyone of the official outcome no matter how improbable a different outcome is. For all we know, there was a small chance that Chiesa was given more bloodflow with his head turning; maybe he stopped defending because he felt the choke slipping, or to gather himself and conserve energy and focus for one last whatever.

Was there a much greater chance he was on his way to tapping or going out on his shield? Definitely, anyone should be able to admit that, but that isn't the issue. Early stoppages don't just happen with strikes. Mario was on edge because it did look like a done deal, but he definitely pulled the trigger at the wrong time and/or thought the slight hand movements was a tap. Either way it was a mistake.
 
I thought the stoppage was good. Watched the replay and still think it was good. Chiesa stopped defending or fighting the hands and his arms were limp. He needed to fight or thumbs up, but he looked out.
 
Agreed that the stoppage controversy too much; MC was going out and was no longer in control of anything whether tapping or sleeping. It was a done deal and Kevin Lee was the winner and the rest is all speculation. Kevin Lee better man this night...period.
 
Only controversy is that the ref messed up.. but didnt affect the result in anyway and I find it kind of embarrassing that they are making it such a big deal.. choke was sunk, plenty of time left on clock, Mike wasn't even hand fighting anymore. Let's be real, guys.
 
DannyNL said:
Chiesa didn't tap and he wasn't unconscious, that has to be acknowledged. But he was within 1-2 seconds of either tapping or going unconscious, so I really don't see what the big deal was. He wasn't getting out of that choke, it was a done deal..
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So you're a motherfucking soothsayer and can predict exactly what would've happened?

That's retarded.
There are rules. You either go out or you fucking tap. You don't stop the fight because someone LOOKS like they go out. lmfao, I'm sure some users here could list you a hundred fights where the guy "wasn't getting out of the choke for sure" but somehow ended up winning.
Yamasaki is fucking out of it. That was the worst stoppage of 2017 easily.
 
DannyNL said:
Chiesa didn't tap and he wasn't unconscious, that has to be acknowledged. But he was within 1-2 seconds of either tapping or going unconscious, so I really don't see what the big deal was. He wasn't getting out of that choke, it was a done deal.

I don't blame Yamasaki one bit for stopping it, Chiesa had that 1000 mile stare and his arms were in front of him twitching: he REALLY looked like he was unconscious. Reffing MMA is a tough job, and in the realm of referee fuck-ups I think this was really mild and in no way changed the outcome of the fight. If Chiesa was unconscious and Yamasaki took an extra 2 seconds to stop it, we'd be complaining about how dangerous Yamasaki was and how he shouldn't be reffing.

And I have to say, what an asshole Dana White is to go on Instagram and not only tear down Yamasaki's skills, but to make fun of the little heart gesture he makes as a shout out to his children. What kind of a douchebag would make fun of someone doing that for their kids? Maybe Dana should worry about doing his own job, because it seems like he has a whole roster full of angry, disgruntled fighters and more and more fighters are WILLINGLY jumping ship to Bellator by the week it seems.
Click to expand...


He didnt

We wouldnt
 
Mario Yamasaki is a 4rth degree black belt in BJJ and a black belt in Judo.

He has obviously been reffing for years.

I'm pretty sure he knows when someone is going unconscious.

He was looking directly into Chiesa's eyes.

He had a better vantage point than anyone

Mario saw him going out. I saw Chiesa going out too. It was done.

Chiesa is lucky Mario stopped it for his safety and it also provided to some people a doubt as to the legitimacy of Lee's win.

To me, there is no question that that was a fair stoppage.
 
Blayt7hh said:
That is all that needs to be said. With joint locks you can permanently damage a limb. With punches you can cause brain damage. With chokes.... nothing. I have no doubt Lee won that fight, but it was a fucking choke. Let the guy getting choked fight as long as he wants.
Click to expand...

Chokes can give you brain damage. Youre literally depriving the brain of oxygen/blood
 
When Chisea was deciding whether to expend energy on grabbing Lees arm from under his chin, it looked like a tap to me. I think Mario made a reasonable judgement in that split second.
 
wanderlei silva had a guillotine sunk in on chael for like 45 seconds. that should have been stopped too.
 
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