I can finally justify ranking Ronda in my P4P top 5

[Aas Gutú Adéli]

It's scary all the praise she has gotten and her best win is over the cupcake LOL

Don't we need Tate vs McMann to know which was the better win?

Somewhat relevant, it is noteworthy that UFC don't even have a rankings page for women

 

[Aas Gutú Adéli]

agreed

p4p means who would win if everything else was equal

if ronda had the same strength as men she would be beating most male fighters through superior technique

What the heck does "everything else" include in your zany definition?

 

[The Clamburglar]

[QUOTE=Aas Gut

 

[King of Fists]

Top 5? She is easily #1 and so far ahead of the males on the list that the only reason they also put guys on the list is so that they don't get their egos hurt.

Everyone knows women are really built for fighting. Guys are built for accounting and other desk jobs. Haven't you guys watched Tomb Raider or Charlie's Angels?? A well trained female will destroy a well trained male 10/10 times.

We all know what happened when a champion boxer in Floyd Mayweather tried to step to Ronda -- he got ktfo in a movie theater

 

[Aas Gutú Adéli]

He has no clue. He is just talking out of his ass because he likes Ronda.

If he knew anything about technique he would know that her technique looks good because of who she is fighting. Men's technique is to a much higher standard.

I like Ronda and think very highly of her technique, but even if you're using the shrink ray definition for p4p, why the hell would you be equalizing strength? Hughes excelled in his day because he was insanely strong for his size. Same with Rampage. Would we also want to equalize punching power? Evaluate Carwin, Dan, Roy without their power? I just don't understand what all he'd equalize.

Judo looks different at different weights and women have different flexibility and study distribution. Etc etc.

 

[Max Power]

Ronda would tool the top pfp boxer Floyd Mayweather so yeah she's easily top of the mma pfp list.

 

[The Clamburglar]

[QUOTE=Aas Gut

 

[BigMuffler]

[QUOTE=Aas Gut

 

[Ancient Warrior]

Might as well put a honey badger in the top 5 p4p too.

Hey, no barriers, right?

 

[Aas Gutú Adéli]

Kaufman is getting short changed here, she has beaten Tate, has more wins and less losses than Tate, and would probably beat Tate again, we also don't know that she'd lose to McMann.

Kaufman may still be the true #2 BW, we just don't know one way or another yet.

We need Sara vs Mispelled Sara

Agreed!

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

[QUOTE=Aas Gut

 

[Aas Gutú Adéli]

I agree with most of this, equalizing physical attributes makes no sense.

Ronda's grappling on the ground is not any better than guys at 125 lbs. or 135 lbs. in the UFC and her wrestling, and striking are far inferior.

She looks like a world beater because the talent level in her division is weak as hell. That skill set would not fly in a men's division.

Controversial opinion: I was way impressed by her ground striking against Tate in their second fight.

There are aspects of her ground game that aren't that remarkable, her armbar game is legit impressive. I liken her ground game to Mir. Mir has a flawed ground game, mostly as far as his closed guard, defensive game. But his offensive submission game can accomplish some impressive things.

With her specific skill set in the hands of a decent male fighter, it might be a Mir, or Yahya, or Maia. Hard to say!

How would her judo skill and her work ethic translate into a male fighter?

This is again why I don't like the shrink ray analysis

 

[Aas Gutú Adéli]

Fixed for you.

I'd be curious if MM or RRR gets more viewers, we know which one gets more mainstream attention.

Yeah I understand what you're saying.. But with obvious holes in her game, her fighting mediocre competition, and the level of women's MMA compared to where the Men's is at...

I just don't think Women's MMA and Men's MMA rankings should ever even be mixed. She is the number one fighter in her division. Number one women's fighter in the world. Great accomplishment, but it's women's. We recognize the difference between Men's fighting and Women's fighting right? That's not to disrespect the women, but it's a whole other thing.

I don't see the point of needing comparing her to men in a sport like fighting.

Comparing flyweights and heavyweights and welterweights is pretty rough! Things work at heavyweight that don't at flyweight. So too with women!

 

[JarlSkuld]

The term "pound-for-pound" was first used in boxing as a way to compare highly skilled boxers who were separated by too many weight classes to actually fight each other. It was a way of saying, "Well, these two boxers will never fight each other. But let`s compare them based on their respective performances within their divisions. Who do you think has been more impressive?" Of course, this was long before there was MMA and long before their were women competing in boxing and MMA.

There seems to be a lot of (young?) sherdoggers who get really hung up on this term... it seems like they interpret the word "pound" too literally. P4P Best is simply a way of comparing fighters who will never actually be able to fight due to great discrepancies in weight or - now, in this era - differences in gender. In other words, who looks most impressive within their division and in regards to the opponents they`ve faced? But still, you get some people who insist that men and women should fight each other ignoring the fact that men`s bantam weight and women`s bantam weight are two different divisions (if you are still lost on this point, read the above paragraph again)...and bringing this point up with them is like arguing with a small child (i.e."Nuh-uh!!!!! Pound-for-pound means exactly the same weight, man or woman! Pound means weight! It means men and women should fight! No way a woman is beating a man in a fight! Pshaw!"). These childish posts are made by people who are either deliberately ignoring what the original intent of a pound-for-pound list was/is...or they are just very insecure when the topic of capable, strong, and confident women comes up. They seem to be most afraid of Ronda Rousey.

When comparing the different divisions within the UFC, and the best fighters within those divisions who can never fight each other, you need to look at their record, their performances, and how well they do in comparison to the rest of the field. Ronda Rousey has a smaller number of fights than most of the other champions in the UFC (close to the same number as Dillashaw and Weidman, though). But, she is undefeated, with all finishes, all but one finish in the first round. She didn`t start by fighting cans and padding her record in local promotions like most current champs did. She beat Top 5 ranked opponents even at 145 in her first three fights. Based on this evidence, no other current champion is as dominant as her - except maybe Jones - and the only reason not to rank her #1 on the P4P Best is that she just needs more fights. In my opinion, she`s number 1 or number 2 on any pound-for-pound discussion.

Jarl

 

[Szwok]

WMMA not having their own p4p list only confirms that WMMA is weak and shallow to begin with.

Putting RR ont hat list is in line with the: RR would beat male fighter X without 10 years of training in ground game. Trying to hype up WMMA off of the back of famous names.

 

[Fantomas187]

putting a woman in the p4p list doesnt make any sense. Women not having their own p4p list just confirms that WMMA is being to shallow and weak to have one.

Moussassi tooled RR and he aint even on that list.Ok ok he has some weight on her and ofc some muscle. Pretty sure any BW top10 couldve done that also!



p4p list is a hypothetical list where fighters have their skills be translated to the same weight etc, and then who would win a fight. How can you translate the power of a woman to match that of a man? You cant. So RR should not be considered for the male p4p list. imho ofc!

Not true. In the p4p list you are comparing how good each fighter is at their own weight, to how good other fighters are at their own weight. So if you were comparing a MW to a LW, you would be comparing how good the MW is as a MW, to how good the LW is as a LW. Comparing them hypothetically at the same weight would be hopeless, as there would be no way to have a sensible discussion about it. How could you possibly have any idea what Tim Sylvia would be like as a LW. Or Jose Aldo as a HW. It's ludicrous.

Nor is it a comparison of "skills" per se. It's a question of who is the better fighter i.e. who is better at winning fights. People generally think of something specific when they talk about skills. For example if you asked to a group of people to name the top 10 most skilful HW boxers of all time, few would name George Foreman. However, many of those same people would have Foreman in their top 10 list for best HW of all time. I would suggest "attributes" might be a better word. As it could cover things more generally, like chin, endurance, speed, reach, things which obviously help fighters win fights. And again all these attributes are obviously tied to the fighters physical body, and the weight they fight at.

 

[TheComebackKid]

This is like putting a kid on the p4p list because he's #1 in the children's division.

She really shouldn't be included in the p4p rankings.

 

[muaythaibeast]

P4P is divisional dominance because that is the only measure that makes any sense. Rousey has finishes and complete control over her opponents so she deserves her spot.


"What if all the fighters were the same size?" is something that I cannot begin to think about.

So frankie edgar winning at lw against bigger guys is no more impressive than bendo beating the same guys, because they fight in the same division? Your size has everything to do with it.
My list is hugely dependent on your size comparitive to your opponents. If jones beats machida, and then say hendricks beat machida, its obviously a much bigger win for hendricks

 

[muaythaibeast]

Rouseys position on that list makes about as much sense as having kong/lombard a few years ago, they were beating everyone they faced too

 

[Groundmaster]

She doesn't belong in the conversation. P4p she's behind Cody Mackenzie

This. Is she top 10 p4p in womens MMA - sure but there is no male UFC fighter who could not tool her.