I can finally justify ranking Ronda in my P4P top 5

FrontNakedChoke said:
Cat Zingano for one. Obviously that was out of Rouseys control but the fact remains. She was the rightful number one contender after knocking out Tate. And then Tate gets a title shot.... Coming off of a KO loss.... Should say something.
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It says plenty, but that happens with the guy divisions, too. Barao never got to fight Cruz, Johnny never got to properly beat GSP. And how jacked up was the heavyweight lineage there for awhile?

Ronda is staying active fighting who the give her. She'll likely fight Cat asap. If Cat doesn't get a win before that fight it'll be a hard win to read because we won't know if she was properly recovered.

All this is why consistency and streaks are so key to this discussion (for me).

Jones fighting Vitor and Sonnen couldn't hurt his cred, but he just kept plugging away beating people.

Dillashaw might have a Serra esque run, or he might just keep winning. We'll see.
 
BigMuffler said:
Holly Can Crusher Holm DOES have some of the best pure striking in the division but we have no idea how effectively she'll be able to bring it to bear against people who actually look to grapple her. None. It's like saying David Haye would be an instant top male HW/LHW if he transitioned to MMA.

And how the heck does Calboy know her TDD is on point? lol
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This can't happen and that's because of a past injury :icon_twis

article-2010892-0CD81DD500000578-456_233x342.jpg
 
BigMuffler said:
Holly Can Crusher Holm DOES have some of the best pure striking in the division but we have no idea how effectively she'll be able to bring it to bear against people who actually look to grapple her. None. It's like saying David Haye would be an instant top male HW/LHW if he transitioned to MMA.

And how the heck does Calboy know her TDD is on point? lol
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Because she trains at Jacksons, it was her weakness coming into MMA(so she's worked hard on it) and because she's a very large 135er(size matters, esp in grappling)

fact is I'm not saying she could walk in and beat Ronda and Sara, but i'm fairly confident she would be top 10 right away and she's a very tough matchup for Miesha, Liz, Sarah Kauffman, davis right off the bat.

you guys make it sound like learning to defend the takedown is some sort of black magic. Outside of Ronda and Sara NOBODY has elite takedowns in the 135 WMMA class.

For the love of god, LISTEN TO ME. Liz Carmouche only started fighting in 2010 and pretty much wrestlefucked one of the best wrestlers in the division for 2.5 rounds. She trains at a small camp and had no prior wrestling exp, so why is it so hard to believe that Holly Holm(much bigger and much more athletic) could learn to wrestle training at an elite camp with elite wreslters in 3 years
 
The women and men should have separate p4p lists. Clearly she's the best women's fighter in the world p4p. The only other one that could be argued is a roided up freak 10 lbs heavier than her.
 
FrontNakedChoke said:
Who got a title shot coming off of a KO loss in your comparison?
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Ah, that's what you were talking about. I was speaking more broadly about important fights we didn't get. (Where we didn't get the fight we wanted)

As for what you're talking about
Eilers got a title shot after a KO loss
As did Anderson

Penn got a shot at Hughes after a decision loss
Diaz got one after a decision loss
Sylvia had a title shot after a submission loss

These things happen
Fun enough, all those that got the title shots after a loss mentioned above lost their title fights. Tate included.

Luckily Tate isn't Ronda's only title defense or it would be worse
 
Calboy said:
Because she trains at Jacksons, it was her weakness coming into MMA(so she's worked hard on it) and because she's a very large 135er(size matters, esp in grappling)

fact is I'm not saying she could walk in and beat Ronda and Sara, but i'm fairly confident she would be top 10 right away and she's a very tough matchup for Miesha, Liz, Sarah Kauffman, davis right off the bat.

you guys make it sound like learning to defend the takedown is some sort of black magic. Outside of Ronda and Sara NOBODY has elite takedowns in the 135 WMMA class.

For the love of god, LISTEN TO ME. Liz Carmouche only started fighting in 2010 and pretty much wrestlefucked one of the best wrestlers in the division for 2.5 rounds. She trains at a small camp and had no prior wrestling exp, so why is it so hard to believe that Holly Holm(much bigger and much more athletic) could learn to wrestle training at an elite camp with elite wreslters in 3 years
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OTOH Germaine De Randamie is a large BW with an impressive striking background who has proven not so effectual at the top level in MMA. We'll see when Holly faces some serious grapplers.

Also Liz Carmouche is unique in that she's very strong for a WMMA fighter, supposedly benching 225 and deadlifting 315 for reps, and basically uses that strength to bully other women. Her being 'much smaller' than Holm may not be so relevant.

She's the strongest blanket in the division... and possibly the only blanket too.
 
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LOL

The best MMA fighter she has fought is Miesha Tate.

The women's division is a joke.
 
agreed

p4p means who would win if everything else was equal

if ronda had the same strength as men she would be beating most male fighters through superior technique
 
FrontNakedChoke said:
I hear ya. Just saying, she has four title defenses but one of them was a replacement that she had already finished. She hasn't beaten the #1 contender.

Would you consider her a well-rounded fighter? Surely to be considered top 5-10 P4P she would need to be...
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You'd think so!
But for the divisional dominance / accomplishment based rankings it just matters what your results are.

It's actually why I prefer it to the size normalization p4p definition, is it's more like the individual divisional rankings. It doesn't matter how many holes were in his game, Brock kept winning (until he didn't!), his ranking was based on wins not an evaluation of his attributes. His holes caught up with him.

Ronda isn't complete, it's up to her challengers to capitalize on the holes and if they can't then it either speaks to those holes not being consequential or the weakness of her division. Or both.

She has the weakest striking of all the Champions. But the best judo (it would seem) and among the most aggressive submission game. Weakest head movement too, but she's in the division that matters least in.

That all ties into what I like about having the women's division. It's a different version of the sport. What works at HW doesn't work as well at LW and neither fits quite right at WBW.
 
mkerrison1 said:
It's scary all the praise she has gotten and her best win is over the cupcake LOL
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Kaufman lost to someone Tate beat but also beat Tate herself and has more wins and less losses than Tate, a win over her is at least equal if not better for the resume.
 
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