Hyper-masculinity in the third world - do Western conservatives really want to live like them?

[Renard]

You're the one who wants to flood the west with third-world migrants who will fragment and damage the liberal culture. So why don't you tell us your answer to your own question.

 

[Fawlty]

Not much to add, I think you said it brilliantly. The overemphasis on masculinity is the primal fear genetic garbage we haven't tempered, and the "manliest" places (where law/politics reflect 'manliness') are full of human rights abuses, especially against women.

 

[MikeMcMann]

its a balancing act TS.

You can certainly build an OP similar looking at the detriments of the so called Soy-boy generation amongst the modern liberals with the same question asking social liberals what they think.

In the end the best to avoid extremes on either end, just like in most of life, balance is key.

 

[Social Distance Warrior]

Serious question to everyone in this thread.

Do you think Kevin Durant's "real MVP" speech done in tears was unmanly or beta?

 

[Ripskater]

concepts of masculinity still persist to a much greater degree than even in poor US populations, concepts such as:

• inability to discuss personal problems and demonization of emotion
  
• small-mindedness, unwillingness to consider others' perspectives, or worldviews outside one's own
  
• pathological need to protect one's own image of "manliness" through irrational display/use of force
  
• hostility towards gender equality/women's rights and intolerance of sexual minorities (homophobia)

So, social conservatives, do you see any problems here?

I don't think those things are necessarily masculine. I think that's what feminists want you to believe is toxic masculinity

 

[all caps]

Serious question to everyone in this thread.

Do you think Kevin Durant's "real MVP" speech done in tears was unmanly or beta?

Speaking of

Which gimmick account do you think KD has registered here to go at the fools clowning him in the sports bar?

 

[Trotsky]

I don't think those things are necessarily masculine. I think that's what feminists want you to believe is toxic masculinity

They do - necessarily - correlate with traditional masculinity in most cultures.

As far as what defines "toxic masculinity," I do not know. I never researched the term.

 

[Wingslaught]

I don't think those things are necessarily masculine. I think that's what feminists want you to believe is toxic masculinity

Agreed. It seems like an example of pathologizing masculinity, perhaps in an attempt to psychologically neuter men.

Really, both femininity and masculinity have their place. No man should be wrongfully deprived of their masculinity just as no female should be deprived of or shamed for their femininity. Politics is a messy business though.

 

[Trotsky]

Not much to add, I think you said it brilliantly. The overemphasis on masculinity is the primal fear genetic garbage we haven't tempered, and the "manliest" places (where law/politics reflect 'manliness') are full of human rights abuses, especially against women.

Even setting aside true third world countries, it's especially alarming how right wingers fetishize the "manliness" of authoritarians like Stalin: it speaks to a very fundamental animosity toward free democratic thought, that the only purported far leftists that they admire are the ones who brutally committed human rights abuses but did so behind a veneer of hyper-masculine cult of personality. And, as I hoped was at least touched upon in my OP, it is not underpinned by any real logic or social philosophy.

 

[HereticBD]

What we don't want is the Liberal femininity that welcomes these mentally underdeveloped psychos from their third world shit holes, to our first world countries under some ridiculously naive sentiment of acceptance of all people, no matter how fucked up they are.

 

[Cocrehamster]

Western conservatives realize that if all western men turn in to passive panty waists there will be no one left to defend the western world when the 3rd world men decide to bring the fight here.

Hopefully the robots can save us here!

 

[curryjunkie]

I've mulled over this topic several times. But the recent testimonials of NBA players about depression and how growing up, particularly in low-income inner city areas, they were not able to discuss mental health for fear of seeming weak - it reminded me of the disparate existence of hyper-masculinity across ethnic and economic lines. Even within the society of the wealthiest country in the world (the United States), traditional concepts of masculinity persist much more strongly in poorer urban communities.

For instance African Americans, despite having disproportionately high incidence of mental illness, are far less likely to seek mental health treatment; African Americans and Hispanic Americans are more likely to be averse to homosexuality; African Americans and Hispanic Americans are more likely to be religious and intolerant of religious liberalism


But in poor communities and in underdeveloped countries from the Middle East, to Africa, to Latin America, traditional (to citizens of countries like the US, perhaps outdated) concepts of masculinity still persist to a much greater degree than even in poor US populations, concepts such as:

• inability to discuss personal problems and demonization of emotion
• small-mindedness, unwillingness to consider others' perspectives, or worldviews outside one's own
• pathological need to protect one's own image of "manliness" through irrational display/use of force
• hostility towards gender equality/women's rights and intolerance of sexual minorities (homophobia)

Meanwhile, ignorant nostalgia for the loss of traditional masculine concepts is really only present in Western societies whose standards of living and overall happiness are some of the highest in the world - and really only at the top of those societies at that.


So, social conservatives, do you see any problems here?

Yes they think it will give them a sense of superiority in a world where they fear becoming irrelevant

 

[Kindacrazy]

Its funny how we can look at this from so much of the same direction and come to different conclusions.

I don't want third world hyper masculinity to become the norm here. That doesn't mean that classically masculine sociological and psychological behavior have no place in modern society. In fact there are many aspects of classically masculine socialization that we are clearly missing in modern western society.

For example, an important classically masculine behavior is the ability to stand up and tell the truth in the face of authoritative group think. Risking ostracization is something that is virtually only done by masculine individuals. We have huge numbers of people cowed into not speaking their minds for fear of being out-grouped, even in the face of obviously socially destructive group think.

Males are also classically focused on productive lives. We see people becoming more and more entitled and lazy every generation.

There is a wide array of masculine behavior that is beneficial to society. Even the capacity for violence is necessary in the defense of society. Take for instance the massacre at Charlie Hebdo which was met with maybe the most limp wrested and effeminate response imaginable. Muslims in France were nothing but emboldened by the French response. A more masculine response in this situation would have been far better in the long run.

Having said all of that, I don't want the third world savage mentality that dominates the Middle East and Africa to become the norm anywhere here. It is a culture that is completely incompatible with enlightenment values and will lead to the destruction of western civilization.

 

[Kindacrazy]

Also there is one factual error I should point out. Africans and most middle easterners (both men and women) are generally "happier" and report higher life satisfaction numbers then people in the west.

 

[JamesRussler]

K

 

[spamking]

Some of you think up some really stupid stuff to make a mountain out of . . . talk about "mansplaining" junk to fit some stupid narrative you have going on inside your feeble minds.

And your definitions of "manliness" seem very idiotic . . .

My goodness.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

USA might have a high economic standard of living compared to the rest of the world, but I dont think most Americans are really happy. Obesity, social chaos, medication drug abuse, the dissolution of marriages and the family unit, and massive debt, is some of the worst in the world here. The potential for happiness is great here though, you just have to unplug from certain ideas, people, media etc

obesity, meds, and debt are good points.

social chaos though lol.....have you read much american history? and the family unit thing is debatable. some people are very happy to leave marriages, and were very unhappy to stay in them in the 1950s.

 

[jrams]

For instance African Americans, despite having disproportionately high incidence of mental illness, are far less likely to seek mental health treatment; African Americans and Hispanic Americans are more likely to be averse to homosexuality; African Americans and Hispanic Americans are more likely to be religious and intolerant of religious liberalism

Your theory is that American conservatives want to be more like blacks and latinos?

Maybe you should try defining masculinity, the central theme to your thesis, so that people can have an equal footing. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the "masculinity" that you think American conservatives desire isn't what they actually desire. Especially when you use blacks, one of the most chastised groups for their "culture", as one of the examples.

 

[ocean size]

I am wrecking fools on Sherdog.

Lol 'interesting' take on things ITT so far

 

[TheGreatA]

I don't think anyone is looking forward to 3rd world masculinity, which is precisely why people, men in particular, are as strongly against 3rd world immigration as they are. I certainly have no time to play juvenile games amongst other adult men, and never did.

Masculinity, as it is with "collective force" of this sort, including femininity, can turn out good or bad, depending on which way the society can direct its course. It's most certainly an enormous source of energy for societies, which the West ought to tap into rather than neuter, the latter of which has been its most recent course.

Responding to this, many men have looked to the past in order to re-discover "manly virtues", because the society is not necessarily doing a proper job of showing them a way to the future.

I do not truly fear a "revert to the past" because the past is unattainable in modern circumstances. The old will blend with the new, creating something original, and hopefully improved. A more alert, vigilant and pro-active male population should never be seen as a threat to the society, but rather a boon. Inadequate leadership is the only thing to fear under such circumstances.