Crime Hungarian Dictator gets standing ovation at CPAC

[Fox by the Sea]

So has Erdogan, would you say Erdogan is not a dictator?

people called trump a dictator. the word is a joke now.

 

[Islam Imamate]

people called trump a dictator. the word is a joke now.

I'm curious as to your answer to my question though. Would you call Erdgoan a dictator despite the fact that he's won elections for almost twenty years now?

 

[Fox by the Sea]

I'm curious as to your answer to my question though. Would you call Erdgoan a dictator despite the fact that he's won elections for almost twenty years now?

well a dictator possesses absolute power. a dictator does not need to organize elections, run campaigns, depend on the will of the people, etc.
these people are authoritarians. from a scale from 1 to 10, erdogan is like a 7, orban is like a 3.
i wish people got educated enough to use terms properly.

 

[Islam Imamate]

well a dictator possesses absolute power. a dictator does not need to organize elections, run campaigns, depend on the will of the people, etc.
these people are authoritarians. from a scale from 1 to 10, erdogan is like a 7, organ is like a 3.
i wish people got educated enough to use terms properly.

Uh sure I guess that's a fair distinction but in general people use the term dictator to refer to autocratic leaders. Erdogan is definitely an autocratic leader and Orban is following in his footsteps. If Erdogan is a 7 then I'd say Orban is a 5 given the declaration of emergency and ruling by decree thing.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Uh sure I guess that's a fair distinction but in general people use the term dictator to refer to autocratic leaders.

well the people are wrong. proper meaning of words is important.

 

[Islam Imamate]

well the people are wrong. proper meaning of words is important.

Okay so as I said, Orban is an aspiring dictator given his power grabs and the fact that he explicitly wants to model his state after a dictatorship like that of Russia.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

Okay so as I said, Orban is an aspiring dictator given his power grabs and the fact that he explicitly wants to model his state after a dictatorship like that of Russia.

he can't be an aspiring dictator in the EU, where a shitload of policy decisions aren't even taken in the capitals, but in Brussels. foreign trade decisions are done according to a EU framework, he can't even make a trade agreement alone. erdogan can be an aspiring dictator since he's not in the EU.

 

[avenue94]

you are describing the democrat party tactics of America.

Lol riiiight, which is why the conservatives have no shortage of media to their tastes....oh wait.

Nah you're jsut woefully ignorant on the media landscape, among other things.

 

[Islam Imamate]

he can't be an aspiring dictator in the EU, where a shitload of policy decisions aren't even taken in the capitals, but in Brussels. foreign trade decisions are done according to a EU framework, he can't even make a trade agreement alone. erdogan can be an aspiring dictator since he's not in the EU.

He openly flouts those rules when its convenient for him because Poland won't vote Hungary out of the EU. Besides, he's introduced emergency powers and rule by decree years ago and has now used the war in Ukraine as a pretense to extend them. That's the classic autocrat playbook.

 

[avenue94]

They're just going to say that Democrats do the same thing because some celebrities told people to vote for Clinton, heck some ITT are implying that Trudeau is more authoritarian than Orban. They don't care about intellectual honesty and rigor, the most important thing is to advance partisan politics and to them Orban is on their side since he is against Muslim immigration, race mixing, leftist activism etc.

Elections=freeeeeedoooooom

 

[Fox by the Sea]

He openly flouts those rules when its convenient for him because Poland won't vote Hungary out of the EU. Besides, he's introduced emergency powers and rule by decree years ago and has now used the war in Ukraine as a pretense to extend them. That's the classic autocrat playbook.

no, he doesn't openly flout THOSE rules. because he can't. he literally can't make a trade agreement on his own. he does flout some rules, just like Poland does. and Poland can't prevent voting someone out of the EU, what it can do is prevent a temporary stop on the EU funds. a country can't be voted out of the EU, only have some advantages suspended.
i agree he is an authoritarian but on principle i can't agree on the dictator moniker. it's simply not the case and the meaning of words is important.

 

[CantCucktheTuck]

He is a dictator people are saying.

 

[evergreenrider]

Ukraine weaponry sent by the west is hitting the black market. That is well documented. Ukrainian corrupt are selling it to the mafias of europe and gangs. Going to get chaotic in the comings months and years in europe

Hence the return of the merchant of death. We got some arms that need moved

 

[Islam Imamate]

no, he doesn't openly flout THOSE rules. because he can't. he literally can't make a trade agreement on his own. he does flout some rules, just like Poland does. and Poland can't prevent voting someone out of the EU, what it can do is prevent a temporary stop on the EU funds. a country can't be voted out of the EU, only have some advantages suspended.
i agree he is an authoritarian but on principle i can't agree on the dictator moniker. it's simply is not the case and the meaning of words is important.

To be voted out of the EU requires consensus from all the other members right? If Hungary and Poland cover for each other, which seems to be what they'd do, it prevents the rest of the bloc from voting either out. Of course there are some rules that Orban can't flout, like trade which you mentioned as well as freedom of movement. But in terms of stuff within Hungary and the management of its political institutions, Orban does not seem to care about EU standards.

 

[Fox by the Sea]

To be voted out of the EU requires consensus from all the other members right? If Hungary and Poland cover for each other, which seems to be what they'd do, it prevents the rest of the bloc from voting either out. Of course there are some rules that Orban can't flout, like trade which you mentioned as well as freedom of movement. But in terms of stuff within Hungary and the management of its political institutions, Orban does not seem to care about EU standards.

no, you can't be voted out of the EU. there is no mechanism for exclusion. you can vote on the SUSPENSION of certain perks, attributes, funding, etc. you will still be a EU member. poland and hungary do cover for each other because both are troublemakers inside the EU and most decisions are taken with unanimous vote. there's a plan now moving ahead according to which qualified majority will be the yardstick, but it's slow to cover ground and for the moment only applied to very restricted policy decisions. again, there are ZERO ways by which you could get kicked out of the EU.

 

[hitcher]

Not if she's a committed Muslim who wants to raise Muslim children.

Dont you think that this logic could be applied to Hungarians as well? Religions and races after all are just man made. On a biological level there is barely any difference between the races.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Dont you think that this logic could be applied to Hungarians as well? Religions and races after all are just man made. On a biological level there is barely any difference between the races.

Not really because race is entirely unrelated to one's values while one's religion has everything to do with one's values. People of different races can have the same values that would lead to a healthy marriage and child rearing but two committed people of faith of different religions are going to have relevant, conflicting values. And people of different races can assimilate into the same culture.

Of course if this hypothetical "Muslim women" doesn't actually care about Islam and doesn't care about raising Muslim kids then marrying out of the religion is not going to be a big deal for her because she's not really a committed Muslim.

 

[Bald1]

Not really because race is entirely unrelated to one's values while one's religion has everything to do with one's values. People of different races can have the same values that would lead to a healthy marriage and child rearing but two committed people of faith of different religions are going to have relevant, conflicting values. And people of different races can assimilate into the same culture.

Of course if this hypothetical "Muslim women" doesn't actually care about Islam and doesn't care about raising Muslim kids then marrying out of the religion is not going to be a big deal for her because she's not really a committed Muslim.

Interesting.

So you aren't your ideology? But rather ideologies can change? Leads me to believe, using your own logic, that an ideology can indeed be an invasive species.

An invasive species not welcomed by a country that's stubbornly culturally Christian, to a point where it's written in their construction that it's the government's duty to keep it so.

I know you have a problem with this, but somehow you're cool with such ideas in countries within the Islamic world.

We're seeing, in real time, such changes happening right now here in the west. Men can be women and women can be men if they just believe really really hard. But social contagion and the spread of beliefs can't happen in a religous way? Lol.

 

[regmma123]

You don't know shit about what you talk about.
Orban started as progressive liberal at the begging in politics. He is not right wing politician theese days. Orban is simple populist. His main aim is to stay at power, he does and says what brings him voters.

Through out the years he made 180 degree turn.
He doesn't speak anything special. He isn't dropping any truth bombs. He is just scaring his electorate to stay in power. Each country of central Europe ( V 4 countries) is safe as fuck. It doesn't have anything to do with Orban. Prague, Bratislava are safer cities then Budapest for example.
Orban just blabbers about immigration.
Facts: Hungary grants around 5k assylums/year
Slovakia : under 1k.
Do you know when he started to criticize EU? When Orban got several diplomatical warnings from EU. He is shifting power and removing democratic control tools for more then 10 years. There is nonexisteent private media in Hungary. The state media advertise Orbans propaganda each day. There was 0 political debates in TV before parliamentary elections this year. You can not see Orban in discussion with opposing party politician anymore.
Orban succeeded to bend also court system in his favour.
He changed the voting law so much it is very easy for him to win now.
Orban wasn't elected democratically.
EU is threatening to stop funding Hungary, not because Orban says things against EU. Orban defrauded billions of Euros from EU funds during his reign. When EU started to investigate it, he started to shit in EU. That's all.
Before each elections he was bribing voters with some economically nonsensical benefits, which are preventing Hungary to progress.

He fits right in with the Republicans

That's not even a joke

 

[Bald1]

what ? .. the United States was once at least 90% white .. lol@we've always been diverse .. yeah now it's basically not possible but there was a time it was but then they signed those immigration laws and opened up the place to anyone and their mother and who knows what else was going on behind the scenes

Lol. Wtf is this white nationalist fairy tale?

You're never had an official language.
You've never had an official religion.
You've never, ever, ever been a unified county
You've never been a unified people

And the US has never been 90% white. The hell is that? Native Americans, Mexicans, Chinese labour, African slaves. Leave it to Beaver was a localized fairy tale.

This beluef in shit that never happened is the problem with the MAGA movement. A belief that things used to be better way back when, but things changed and that's why America is in trouble. Newsflash! All the ingredients that made you great are still there, you're just not using them.

You were great because of your freedoms, opportunities, natural resources, geographic isolation and perhaps most importantly because your Constitution is one of the greatest documents ever written.