Economy Huawei News & Discussion: BT Will Build UK’s Emergency Network with "High-Risk Vendor" Huawei

Intel decided to no longer supply processors and other hardware to Huawei, for use in its laptops and server products. Sales of AMD processors will stop, too. Qualcomm-Broadcom have decided to stop supply of mobile SoCs and network PHYs, respectively. Microsoft decided to stop licensing Huawei to use Windows and Office products.

https://www.techpowerup.com/255715/...oogle-microsoft-intel-and-qualcomm-ban-huawei

I'm sure this will backfire eventually. It's a sign of goodwill and cooperation that China has so far licensed stuff from the U.S. imo.

Hopefully nobody believes that they will not be able to penetrate the CPU and SoC market and become independent from the US. This may take a few years, but the U.S. will look back on this day with regret.

They definitely could if they manage to purloin enough in intellectual property and trade secrets. Huawei has a vested interest in producing SoC's to full capacity but the CCP seems hellbent on carving out a place for China in memory chips in particular which aside from Micron, is largely a South Korea dominated segment. I don't really give a fuck aside from the fact some state backed Chinese shithouse hoarded $9 billion worth of IP... from Micron.

The most cutting edge, innovative firms to ever exist in the US, EU, SK, Japan and Taiwan haven't been able to make the slightest dent in Intel's uP business. They've rarely even dared to attempt such a thing, it's a huge waste of resources and time. Nobody here gives a shit about the pc and server chip markets being virtually monopolized outside of AMD because their end-to-end operations are overwhelmingly based in the US and Intel accounts for 25% of the entire industry's R&D globally.

I have serious doubts a Chinaman company will suddenly fall out of the sky and be able to compete with them on performance and process technology tbh.
 
They definitely could if they manage to purloin enough in intellectual property and trade secrets. Huawei has a vested interest in producing SoC's to full capacity but the CCP seems hellbent on carving out a place for China in memory chips in particular which aside from Micron, is largely a South Korea dominated segment. I don't really give a fuck aside from the fact some state backed Chinese shithouse hoarded $9 billion worth of IP... from Micron.

The most cutting edge, innovative firms to ever exist in the US, EU, SK, Japan and Taiwan haven't been able to make the slightest dent in Intel's uP business. They've rarely even dared to attempt such a thing, it's a huge waste of resources and time. Nobody here gives a shit about the pc and server chip markets being virtually monopolized outside of AMD because their end-to-end operations are overwhelmingly based in the US and Intel accounts for 25% of the entire industry's R&D globally.

I have serious doubts a Chinaman company will suddenly fall out of the sky and be able to compete with them on performance and process technology tbh.
If not mistaken the Japanese tried back in the 80s to compete in the chip market but faild in the long run.

I just found out that back in the 80s there was this talk in the comerce sector that in 20 years Japan will suplant the USA in ecconomic growth and production, to the point there is a documentary hosted by Jane Seymor about it.

We will see what will happen in the near term in regards to these Huwawei blocking I am of the belief that these blocking manuever is more than business I think its geopolitical so I also believe the USA has some contingency to undermine Chinese domestic production of chips.

Its no secret that China is using its wealth to lure smaller countries in the region to join its geo political sphere of influence like offering assistance in digital infrastructure,communications and state voyeurism.


Yeah I am loolking at you Gloria Aroyo!! and your ZTE buddies!
 
There was already a deal in place that Xi attempted to redraft at the last minute thinking Trump would just accept it along with the optics. It's totally understandable why the CCP doesn't want enforcement mechanisms in place to hold up their end, it's an affront to their culture. NYT isn't exactly his biggest fan among US media outlets either, more like a nemesis.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/world/asia/trade-xi-jinping-trump-china-united-states.html
There was no inked deal in place. A deal is done when both sides agree on the terms and sign on the paper. Anything before that is just proposals and preliminary consensus. China will never agree to an one way enforcement mechanism because it would make the regime look weak. Chinese government whipped up nationalism for years, and having Americans monitor their compliance would make it look like they were submitting to a foreign overlord. Trump and Xi both believe they can come out on top, and they're both wrong.
 
Yet more of the US protecting their baby. Did it with Ford vs vw, now doing it to protect Apple.

I hate that company so much.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/tech...s-no-good-private-communications-it-was-best/

During the roughly two years Apple was locked in a legal battle with one of its suppliers, Qualcomm, the iPhone maker publicly argued that the chip maker’s technology was worthless.

But according to an internal Apple memo Qualcomm showed during the trial this week between the two tech companies, Apple’s hardware executives used words like “the best” to describe Qualcomm’s engineering. Another Apple memo described Qualcomm as having a “unique patent share” and “significant holdings.”


<36> <36> <36>

Apple’s criticism of Qualcomm underpinned more than 80 lawsuits around the world and influenced governments to change laws and regulations in Apple’s favor. The emails and slide-show presentation, seen by a Washington Post reporter in court, could soon be made available in the docket for all to see, since they were shown at trial. The two sides settled their dispute Tuesday, shortly after the trial began.

The documents also raise questions about the methods Apple used to inflict pain on Qualcomm and whether Apple really believed its own arguments to lawmakers, regulators, judges and juries when it tried to change not just its long-standing business agreement with Qualcomm but the very laws and practices that have allowed inventors to profit from their work and investments.

“While it’s very common for companies who are engaged in legal disputes to play hardball, the disclosure of these documents is very unsettling,” said Adam Mossoff, a law professor at George Mason University and director of the Center for the Protection of Intellectual Property. “It potentially reveals that Apple was engaging in a bad faith argument both in front of antitrust enforcers as well as the legal courts about the actual value and nature of Qualcomm’s patented innovation.”
 
There was no inked deal in place. A deal is done when both sides agree on the terms and sign on the paper. Anything before that is just proposals and preliminary consensus. China will never agree to an one way enforcement mechanism because it would make the regime look weak. Chinese government whipped up nationalism for years, and having Americans monitor their compliance would make it look like they were submitting to a foreign overlord. Trump and Xi both believe they can come out on top, and they're both wrong.

Yeah man, Go China!
 
Heheheheh..

Orgasmo is a really a good poster (srs), I've been back-and-forth with him since I was V-2. All the nationalistic sentiment completely evaporates if you discuss Iran though, or MENA foreign policy in general. China just simply isn't the good guy here, nor are they the world's premier innovator. Compete the right way like everyone else and there won't be a problem, even in semiconductors! Just ask South Korea, done nothing to impede on them.
 
Yeah man, Go China!
The thing about business negotiation is that you need to think how the other side will likely receive your demands. China won't take the current US demands well, and they certainly won't codify the terms into their law since it would look like a complete capitulation. I worked as an assistant manager for a real estate developer before, dealing with all sorts of Chinese clients. They do not negotiate in a linear manner. Things are malleable up to the signing of the contract for them. That's why I find Trump accusing China of backing out of a deal to be out of touch. Anyone who had done business with Chinese would be able to tell you that. They are a lot more flexible about the terms than we are.

Orgasmo is a really a good poster (srs), I've been back-and-forth with him since I was V-2. All the nationalistic sentiment completely evaporates if you discuss Iran though, or MENA foreign policy in general. China just simply isn't the good guy here, nor are they the world's premier innovator. Compete the right way like everyone else and there won't be a problem, even in semiconductors! Just ask South Korea, done nothing to impede on them.
No one said China is the good guy. At the same time, US is aiming to protect its economic status. Both are fighting for their best interests, which determines their geopolitical standing for decades to come. The information on these negotiations are pretty easy to find if you dig around.

- US wants China to dismantle the "Made in China 2025" policy involving artificial intelligence, high tech manufacturing and semiconductors. China won't agree to that.
- US wants to keep some tariffs in place even if a deal is reached to ensure critical industries do not leave for China. China won't agree to that.
- US wants China to stop forcing foreign companies into joint ventures in their market, but still able to block Chinese acquisition in US on national security grounds. China won't agree to that.
- US wants to be able to determine how well China would be abiding at terms of the deal and levy punishment for non-compliance outside of WTO. China won't agree to that.

What you have is a typical rising power challenging an established power. This is clearly beyond just trade grievances. This is a long term struggle for world influence.
 
If not mistaken the Japanese tried back in the 80s to compete in the chip market but faild in the long run.

I just found out that back in the 80s there was this talk in the comerce sector that in 20 years Japan will suplant the USA in ecconomic growth and production, to the point there is a documentary hosted by Jane Seymor about it.

We will see what will happen in the near term in regards to these Huwawei blocking I am of the belief that these blocking manuever is more than business I think its geopolitical so I also believe the USA has some contingency to undermine Chinese domestic production of chips.

Its no secret that China is using its wealth to lure smaller countries in the region to join its geo political sphere of influence like offering assistance in digital infrastructure,communications and state voyeurism.


Yeah I am loolking at you Gloria Aroyo!! and your ZTE buddies!
Economies move in cycles of recessions and booms. Both good and bad investments are made in boom periods. Then the bad investments start going bankrupt and that's called a recession. After bad investments go bankrupt, the money/ resources that were used on them can then be freed up and used on new investments, leading to another boom period. This continues on forever. There's slightly more good investments than bad investments in the long run, thus creating economic growth.

What if you don't allow the bad investments to go bankrupt though? Then you don't have any money for new investments to create another boom period. You just end up stagnant.. forever. In the worst case scenario, the bad investments can continue to accrue losses until you're not just stagnant but completely bust.

Low interest rates encourage borrowing and investing. As all the money supply goes into investments and isn't available to borrow anymore, the available money supply becomes lower which makes it more expensive to borrow money and interest rates become high. High interest rates force the bad investments made during a time period of low interest rates to go bankrupt. The bankruptcy frees up the money used on them for new investments, thus increasing the money supply, making money cheaper to borrow and therefor lowering interest rates. This is a natural market cycle.

However, in today's economies, interest rates aren't determined by the market supply of money. They're price fixed by central banks to reverse the cause and effect; instead of money supply --> interest rates, it becomes interest rates --> money supply. Things going bankrupt and recessions, even though they're necessary, are bad politics though. Everyone knows that politicians in socialist and communist countries with lots of price fixing often end up fixing prices for political benefit instead of economic reality. Similarly, some countries' politicians end up pressuring their central banks to fix interest rates for political benefit instead of economic reality.

That's what Japan did in the early 1990s. That's why, instead of growing and continuing to be an economic peer with the likes of the USA and now China, they've stagnated for nearing 30 years.
 
The thing about business negotiation is that you need to think how the other side will likely receive your demands. China won't take the current US demands well, and they certainly won't codify the terms into their law since it would look like a complete capitulation. I worked as an assistant manager for a real estate developer before, dealing with all sorts of Chinese clients. They do not negotiate in a linear manner. Things are malleable up to the signing of the contract for them. That's why I find Trump accusing China of backing out of a deal to be out of touch. Anyone who had done business with Chinese would be able to tell you that. They are a lot more flexible about the terms than we are.


No one said China is the good guy. At the same time, US is aiming to protect its economic status. Both are fighting for their best interests, which determines their geopolitical standing for decades to come. The information on these negotiations are pretty easy to find if you dig around.


I’ve done plenty of business in China and you’re right that they’ll never agree to a unilateral enforcement provision - or any legitimate enforcement provision for that matter. There a fairly well understood ethic in China that it’s ok make commitments you have no intention of keeping (see the link below for more on this). They’ll only be willing to sign a deal that allows them to maintain the status quo with no consequences. We would be foolish to go along. Better in the long term that our economies decouple.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...87891/perils-chinese-ambiguity-how-and-why-us
 
I’ve done plenty of business in China and you’re right that they’ll never agree to a unilateral enforcement provision - or any legitimate enforcement provision for that matter. There a fairly well understood ethic in China that it’s ok make commitments you have no intention of keeping (see the link below for more on this). They’ll only be willing to sign a deal that allows them to maintain the status quo with no consequences. We would be foolish to go along. Better in the long term that our economies decouple.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...87891/perils-chinese-ambiguity-how-and-why-us

I think we kind of came to this conclusion last July.
 
The thing about business negotiation is that you need to think how the other side will likely receive your demands. China won't take the current US demands well, and they certainly won't codify the terms into their law since it would look like a complete capitulation. I worked as an assistant manager for a real estate developer before, dealing with all sorts of Chinese clients. They do not negotiate in a linear manner. Things are malleable up to the signing of the contract for them. That's why I find Trump accusing China of backing out of a deal to be out of touch. Anyone who had done business with Chinese would be able to tell you that. They are a lot more flexible about the terms than we are.


No one said China is the good guy. At the same time, US is aiming to protect its economic status. Both are fighting for their best interests, which determines their geopolitical standing for decades to come. The information on these negotiations are pretty easy to find if you dig around.

- US wants China to dismantle the "Made in China 2025" policy involving artificial intelligence, high tech manufacturing and semiconductors. China won't agree to that.
- US wants to keep some tariffs in place even if a deal is reached to ensure critical industries do not leave for China. China won't agree to that.
- US wants China to stop forcing foreign companies into joint ventures in their market, but still able to block Chinese acquisition in US on national security grounds. China won't agree to that.
- US wants to be able to determine how well China would be abiding at terms of the deal and levy punishment for non-compliance outside of WTO. China won't agree to that.

What you have is a typical rising power challenging an established power. This is clearly beyond just trade grievances. This is a long term struggle for world influence.

There won't be any deal, my concern is protecting American tech assets and our industrial base from their policies and practices. I'm not a fan of tariffs though, and if tech corps are to be leveraged then go all the way (Fujian Jinhua) or not at all and stop with the bullshit half measures (ZTE, Huawei).
 
I’ve done plenty of business in China and you’re right that they’ll never agree to a unilateral enforcement provision - or any legitimate enforcement provision for that matter. There a fairly well understood ethic in China that it’s ok make commitments you have no intention of keeping (see the link below for more on this). They’ll only be willing to sign a deal that allows them to maintain the status quo with no consequences. We would be foolish to go along. Better in the long term that our economies decouple.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...87891/perils-chinese-ambiguity-how-and-why-us

This is the reason why I laments the fact that India wasted so much of their economic potentials when they are the only other Asian country big enough to counter China.

Here's to hoping that other nations in the Asia-Pacific region are smart enough to gain something from this for their tech industry.
 
Intel decided to no longer supply processors and other hardware to Huawei, for use in its laptops and server products. Sales of AMD processors will stop, too. Qualcomm-Broadcom have decided to stop supply of mobile SoCs and network PHYs, respectively. Microsoft decided to stop licensing Huawei to use Windows and Office products.

https://www.techpowerup.com/255715/...oogle-microsoft-intel-and-qualcomm-ban-huawei

I'm sure this will backfire eventually. It's a sign of goodwill and cooperation that China has so far licensed stuff from the U.S. imo.

Hopefully nobody believes that they will not be able to penetrate the CPU and SoC market and become independent from the US. This may take a few years, but the U.S. will look back on this day with regret.

Thanks to a licensing deal with AMD and a complex joint-venture arrangement, the Chinese chip producer Chengdu Haiguang IC Design Co. (Hygon) is now producing x86-based server processors that are largely indistinguishable from AMD's EPYC processors—so close in design that Linux kernel developers had to do little in the way of patching to support the new processor family, called "Dhyana." The server chips are being manufactured for domestic use only—part of an effort to break China's dependence on foreign technology companies.
 
Thanks to a licensing deal with AMD and a complex joint-venture arrangement, the Chinese chip producer Chengdu Haiguang IC Design Co. (Hygon) is now producing x86-based server processors that are largely indistinguishable from AMD's EPYC processors—so close in design that Linux kernel developers had to do little in the way of patching to support the new processor family, called "Dhyana." The server chips are being manufactured for domestic use only—part of an effort to break China's dependence on foreign technology companies.

For the unaware, it goes something like a very suspect joint venture with the state-backed Chinese holding company THATIC. AMD maintains a majority stake in CHMT. THATIC owns a majority stake in Hygon, which licenses AMD's IP from CHMT. Hygon "designs" the chips, and CHMT manufactures them before shipping back to Hygon for packaging, marketing, and sales.

On another note, let's see if anything comes of this.

Intel Readies The Nukes For ARMed Battle As It Leads Competitors To Barren Wasteland

Summary Wrap:

* Intel (INTC) has been the dominant force in semiconductor processor technology since before computers became a household item.

* Traditional methods for improving processor performance is nearing a plateau. Competitors are gaining on Intel, but it may be leading them to a nuclear wasteland as it looks to emerge as the front-runner in the next generation of computing technology.

* If Intel is indeed moving away from its current computing model, what could be the catalyst for this radical departure? Our theory is that they have foreseen and been planning for this day for a long time. There is one catalyst in particular that may have accelerated the plan.

* Intel is working on revolutionizing mainstream computing which should enable it to corner the processor market once again as it did with the X86 line. If successful, this will result in considerable upside potential for the stock. Our bet is on Intel succeeding.
 
Huawei already hast Its semicondoctor company With hisilicon.

I was just listening to a podcast that mentioned that company is entirely reliant on a US chip design tool. If support to that software is interrupted as a part of this order then it could be lights out for Huawei’s homegrown chips as well.



So this just happened...


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...6/huawei-arm-chip-designs-business-suspension
ARM cuts ties with Huawei, threatening future chip designs
A major blow to Huawei

Chip designer ARM has suspended business with Huawei, threatening the Chinese company’s ability to create its own chips. BBC News reports that ARM employees have been instructed to halt “all active contracts, support entitlements, and any pending engagements” with Huawei due to the US trade ban.
 
So this just happened...


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...6/huawei-arm-chip-designs-business-suspension
ARM cuts ties with Huawei, threatening future chip designs
A major blow to Huawei

Chip designer ARM has suspended business with Huawei, threatening the Chinese company’s ability to create its own chips. BBC News reports that ARM employees have been instructed to halt “all active contracts, support entitlements, and any pending engagements” with Huawei due to the US trade ban.

ARM would not do this on their own Softbank bought them for 32 billion dollars with money they received from their fund guess who the founder of Softbank is and his close friend. Believe me he will backtrack soon because people who invested in his financial arm are starting to wonder about his investments will start paying off. His vision fund has already invested 70 billion of the 100 billion he has raised on largely two investments he has made one the most important one Alibaba that he had a huge stake in.

Masayoshi Son and his buddy.

20db-softbank-articleLarge.jpg
 
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