- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 17,782
- Reaction score
- 3,879
Sure, because none of them are Joe Rogan, who is the subject of discussion.
How would Joe Rogan do against the average blue belt?
- Thread starter dirtypablo
- Start date
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2010
- Messages
- 102,017
- Reaction score
- 32,232
You’re not reading what I’m writing properly bc you’re upset. Try again.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2010
- Messages
- 102,017
- Reaction score
- 32,232
Yes, they actually train. Unlike Rogan
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 17,782
- Reaction score
- 3,879
It just seemed like a non-sequitur for me. I mentioned reasons why I used to dislike 10th Planet (I don't really anymore). If your implication is that Rogan and Bravo's former attitudes towards catch-wrestling and leglocks mean that they might get owned rolling with guys in this day and age, well, yeah, maybe that actually makes sense.
But then again, Eddie changed his attitude on leglocks and Joe seems to have as well. Who knows. But yeah, maybe he'd be behind the ball. I applaud you. That made some sense, I guess.
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 17,782
- Reaction score
- 3,879
What is at the heart of your commitment to this? Are you annoyed by the people who praise Rogan's spinning kick on the bag and talk up his abilities on the ground? Are you just annoyed by the cult of Rogan so much that you're committed to establishing that he would struggle with this hypothetical average white belt? I don't mean this facetiously, I really am curious.
I don't really like Rogan either. But I try to be objective, especially if it is someone I don't really like. I mean, I probably like him less than you do. I don't like marijuana or the cult that has sprung up around it, which is another reason 10th Planet used to bug me.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2010
- Messages
- 102,017
- Reaction score
- 32,232
i love Joe. He’s really good at kicking bags
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 17,782
- Reaction score
- 3,879
Alright. I understand now.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2013
- Messages
- 4,994
- Reaction score
- 2,921
No it's accurate. The average blue belt is a hobbyist both in and out of the mats. Just because you train at a competition heavy top 10% gym doesn't mean that's the norm
The competitions blues are better now but i'd argue the hobbyist blue is actually worst. The dollars in BJJ now is in easy promotions and being "family friendly". Every new gym in my area in the last 5 years is a belt factory. Even the 2 biggest names in my area (Guy Mezger and 8th degree blackbelt Carlos machado) have gone the whole "guranteed promotions after X amounts of classes" mcdojo route because being a hardass gym that literally produced Travis Lutter and Lovato was affecting there bottom line.
10 years ago that would of been UNHEARD of
Um maybe 3x the amount of matt time ? (is that a serious question ?).
Someone who legtimately trained thousands of hours beating someone who has barely a couple hundred hours of training is not steel-manning vs strawmanning. I'm actually shocked I even have to state that (thousands of hours + more physical beating even rusty someone whose a decent beginner is not a hot take).
- Joined
- May 6, 2007
- Messages
- 6,845
- Reaction score
- 8,955
Dude, this is now bugging the hell out of me. I remember this too but just spent 20 minutes autistically looking for the video without success. It's not from the 2007 All Access with Rampage (hosted by Rachelle Leah) because I just skimmed though that and Rogan isn't in it.
I'm pretty sure it was from a special that aired on either Spike or Versus (can't find it online anywhere) around 2007 that started with Joe and Rampage hanging out and Rampage sitting in his lift kit truck. Joe says something and Rampage goes, "What? Brother can't have a monster truck?" I distinctly remember a clip with Rampage and Rogan rolling on a mat, Rampage tapping and then getting up, looking at the camera and saying, "I got tapped out by Joe Rogan!" He's prone to yukking it up, but what probably happened is Rampage underestimated Rogan, got caught, couldn't escape and had to tap, then laughed it off.
In 2012 Rampage did make this comment when he was beefing with Rogan about his "biased" commentary:
"I would beat the s--- out of Joe Rogan - as long as he don't get me to the ground, because his jiu-jitsu is really good. I know he's got good jiu-jitsu because he's so biased towards jiu-jitsu guys. Every time a guy is a jiu-jitsu fighter Rogan might as well be playing the rusty trombone."
marked:
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 6, 2007
- Messages
- 6,845
- Reaction score
- 8,955
Agree with all of this.
This "debate" is kind of played out, but what's tripping it up is disagreement over "average blue belt." Agree the average hobbyist blue might actually be worse now, due to all the promotion by attendance and mcdojo factor as you point out. But competition blues are better so the range at blue is huge.
A more reasonable question would be "How would Rogan do vs. the average purple belt?" There's a big step change between average blue and average purple. A lot of guys get to blue and quit and/or got there on attendance alone. So there's a lot of shitty blues out there which brings down the average.
But you have to be pretty hardcore to get purple. There's less half-assing it there and for most purples, it's only a matter of time before you're BB. The average purple is way better than the average blue.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2002
- Messages
- 17,782
- Reaction score
- 3,879
Man, I remember that monster truck thing now. Yeah, I was actually gonna mention that same video as well, where he mentions Rogan's jiu jitsu. It is funny that the video of Rogan and Rampage rolling isn't somewhere online. I know I saw it and I remember it fairly well, but I'm just glad that someone else in this thread has seen it as well, just to reassure that small part of me that was questioning if I made it up in my head or not.
I sorta got the vibe that rolling in practice was sort of an awkward format for Rampage; like I just got the sense of a guy who had to turn off a lot of what made nearly impossible to deal with on the mat (at that time) due to the niceties of practice rolls. It was sorta weird, from a "booking" perspective in that you want to show your fighters to be supermen in the pre-fight hype, I'd think. But I guess it isn't pro-wrestling.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 7,455
- Reaction score
- 1,283
The question of this thread was 'how would joe rogan do against an average blue belt'.
Well, what gets the better of an average blue belt? An average purple belt would do it.
Given that Hoe Jogan is an average or perhaps somewhat above average black belt, there's really nothing more that needs to be said about it.
It's not clear at all why speeit is wasting so many words on this topic.
Well, what gets the better of an average blue belt? An average purple belt would do it.
Given that Hoe Jogan is an average or perhaps somewhat above average black belt, there's really nothing more that needs to be said about it.
It's not clear at all why speeit is wasting so many words on this topic.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2015
- Messages
- 9,039
- Reaction score
- 4,581
Yeah it happened and in a non competitive environment. Muhamad Ali got brutalised more than once in sparring. Guess what their sparring partners would never brag about "beating" him.
UFC and their employees was always a strange macho relationship kinda like pro wrestling. Either they elevated themselves to comical levels like with Rogan "I would beat mma fighters if I only wanted" and esp. Dana White stories or they would put down mma fighters to compensate their insecurities. This is part of these storylines.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2008
- Messages
- 8,446
- Reaction score
- 7,612
Lol at where this thread has gone. Da speet keeps clinging to a few points that are fairly baseless.
First, his claims about Joe's supposed inactivity. Now, like many of his other points, he seems to be taking one comment Joe made somewhere and running with it, adding his own story as he sees fit because his position here has changed many times. First, its that Joe doesn't train often. Then, its that he hasn't trained in years, or doesn't train at all anymore. Hell, there's even a post where he says that Joe took a decade off, then the following decade only trained once a week. He got his black belt in 2012, so the two decades of inactivity certainly doesn't add up - and, one of the commenters who had actually rolled with him did so when he was a black belt, so we know that Joe was actively training (with regular people) as a black belt. This person spoke highly of Joe - you can read what you will of his comment, but I took it to be he's good, even for a black belt. Given that the same guy goes on to say what douche he thinks Joe is, I think its fair to say he's not just a nuthugger. There are a few other accounts of people rolling with him putting his skill level as very solid for whatever belt he was at the time - so we have every reason to believe, at one point in time, Joe Rogan was absolutely a solid black belt. Now, lets supposed that Joe has taken this giant gap in training (which again, I am not sure where he's getting, as as far as I know he still trains at least once a week.) I myself am a purple belt - a very mediocre purple belt. I took 4 years off of training, and am in nowhere near as good of shape as Joe. My first day back on the mats after a 4 year absence, I rolled like.. an out of shape, rusty purple belt. I would occasionally make stupid mistakes (oh forgot you can't leave that arm there or oh letting them get that grip essentially means I'm giving up the pass), and would have to take a break between each roll, but the things that really mattered, my base, my overall feel for movement and so on were still mostly there. Within a few weeks of training, not hard or crazy training mind you, I was more or less back to rolling at a purple belt level - my biggest issue was cardio, so you could womp me if you rolled with me when I was dead tired, but if I was fresh for a roll I would mostly roll close to my level. Obviously no where near as sharp as I once was, but overall still had the majority of my game. So, the idea that Joe Rogan, who was at one time a solid black belt, has somehow regressed to blue belt level, makes zero sense.
Second, his claims about his level of fitness and injuries. He hasn't made the comments as much in this thread, but the thread that drove me to make this thread, he repeatedly claimed Joe was out of shape and had horrible cardio. This is complete nonsense - Joe works out religiously, and from all accounts has done so his entire adult life. If I had to guess, if you were to randomly pick any bjj school in the country, (randomly means randomly out of the entire set of schools, so the chances of you pulling AOJ, Renzo's, or a similar school is slim), Joe would be in better shape than probably half the people in the school, and certainly in better shape than the majority of guys in their 50s. As far as his injuries, he has mentioned having bad knees and so on, but given the way he works out (and his access to top level drugs and doctors), its fair to say those are the kind of nagging injuries any lifelong athlete has, and not crippling injuries that prevent him from moving. You don't kick a 200lb heavy bag with full force if your knees are completely blown out and frail. I think that Joe is smart enough to know that if he wants to still be active 20 years from now, he should spend most of his workouts doing physical activity with lower risk of adding to his injuries - cardio and lifting weights, and only training martial arts once or twice a week. That doesn't mean he's not capable of training bjj hard, just that he has enough sense not to do it 5x a week.
Finally, the supposed level of blue belts nowadays. He keeps harping on this idea that the modern blue belt is an absolute monster - and if we're talking about the upper echelon of competitive blue belts, he's right. But, those guys are a minority - many of them train 3x a day 6 days a week, and within 3 or 4 years have as much mat time as a new black belt. All the new instructional videos out there help, but what really matters is time on the mat - there's no getting around that. The new school I started training at had a fairly competitive blue belt - he won a regional IBJJF tournament both in his weight (lightweight) and the open, without a point being scored on him. Obviously not the same as winning pans or worlds, but certainly far, far better than the average blue belt. And guess what? He sure as hell wasn't rolling up the average black belts at the gym, even the older out of shape ones. (He womped me, but I certainly made him work for hit) Da speet keeps saying we all train at crappy gyms because we think blue belts aren't that great, but da speet, I think you've gotta ask yourself - if you're a purple belt and white and blue belts are regularly giving you trouble, maybe its not us who suck.. And what does it say about your gym that blue belts are giving black belts are hard time??
I almost can't believe I had to take the time to spell all this out, but holy hell this guy is out of his mind. If you were to randomly pick a bjj school anywhere in America, and Joe Rogan walks in and rolls with every blue belt in the school (ignoring the issue of getting tired rolling with that many guys), 9 schools out of 10 he absolutely mops the floor with 85% of them.
First, his claims about Joe's supposed inactivity. Now, like many of his other points, he seems to be taking one comment Joe made somewhere and running with it, adding his own story as he sees fit because his position here has changed many times. First, its that Joe doesn't train often. Then, its that he hasn't trained in years, or doesn't train at all anymore. Hell, there's even a post where he says that Joe took a decade off, then the following decade only trained once a week. He got his black belt in 2012, so the two decades of inactivity certainly doesn't add up - and, one of the commenters who had actually rolled with him did so when he was a black belt, so we know that Joe was actively training (with regular people) as a black belt. This person spoke highly of Joe - you can read what you will of his comment, but I took it to be he's good, even for a black belt. Given that the same guy goes on to say what douche he thinks Joe is, I think its fair to say he's not just a nuthugger. There are a few other accounts of people rolling with him putting his skill level as very solid for whatever belt he was at the time - so we have every reason to believe, at one point in time, Joe Rogan was absolutely a solid black belt. Now, lets supposed that Joe has taken this giant gap in training (which again, I am not sure where he's getting, as as far as I know he still trains at least once a week.) I myself am a purple belt - a very mediocre purple belt. I took 4 years off of training, and am in nowhere near as good of shape as Joe. My first day back on the mats after a 4 year absence, I rolled like.. an out of shape, rusty purple belt. I would occasionally make stupid mistakes (oh forgot you can't leave that arm there or oh letting them get that grip essentially means I'm giving up the pass), and would have to take a break between each roll, but the things that really mattered, my base, my overall feel for movement and so on were still mostly there. Within a few weeks of training, not hard or crazy training mind you, I was more or less back to rolling at a purple belt level - my biggest issue was cardio, so you could womp me if you rolled with me when I was dead tired, but if I was fresh for a roll I would mostly roll close to my level. Obviously no where near as sharp as I once was, but overall still had the majority of my game. So, the idea that Joe Rogan, who was at one time a solid black belt, has somehow regressed to blue belt level, makes zero sense.
Second, his claims about his level of fitness and injuries. He hasn't made the comments as much in this thread, but the thread that drove me to make this thread, he repeatedly claimed Joe was out of shape and had horrible cardio. This is complete nonsense - Joe works out religiously, and from all accounts has done so his entire adult life. If I had to guess, if you were to randomly pick any bjj school in the country, (randomly means randomly out of the entire set of schools, so the chances of you pulling AOJ, Renzo's, or a similar school is slim), Joe would be in better shape than probably half the people in the school, and certainly in better shape than the majority of guys in their 50s. As far as his injuries, he has mentioned having bad knees and so on, but given the way he works out (and his access to top level drugs and doctors), its fair to say those are the kind of nagging injuries any lifelong athlete has, and not crippling injuries that prevent him from moving. You don't kick a 200lb heavy bag with full force if your knees are completely blown out and frail. I think that Joe is smart enough to know that if he wants to still be active 20 years from now, he should spend most of his workouts doing physical activity with lower risk of adding to his injuries - cardio and lifting weights, and only training martial arts once or twice a week. That doesn't mean he's not capable of training bjj hard, just that he has enough sense not to do it 5x a week.
Finally, the supposed level of blue belts nowadays. He keeps harping on this idea that the modern blue belt is an absolute monster - and if we're talking about the upper echelon of competitive blue belts, he's right. But, those guys are a minority - many of them train 3x a day 6 days a week, and within 3 or 4 years have as much mat time as a new black belt. All the new instructional videos out there help, but what really matters is time on the mat - there's no getting around that. The new school I started training at had a fairly competitive blue belt - he won a regional IBJJF tournament both in his weight (lightweight) and the open, without a point being scored on him. Obviously not the same as winning pans or worlds, but certainly far, far better than the average blue belt. And guess what? He sure as hell wasn't rolling up the average black belts at the gym, even the older out of shape ones. (He womped me, but I certainly made him work for hit) Da speet keeps saying we all train at crappy gyms because we think blue belts aren't that great, but da speet, I think you've gotta ask yourself - if you're a purple belt and white and blue belts are regularly giving you trouble, maybe its not us who suck.. And what does it say about your gym that blue belts are giving black belts are hard time??
I almost can't believe I had to take the time to spell all this out, but holy hell this guy is out of his mind. If you were to randomly pick a bjj school anywhere in America, and Joe Rogan walks in and rolls with every blue belt in the school (ignoring the issue of getting tired rolling with that many guys), 9 schools out of 10 he absolutely mops the floor with 85% of them.
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2008
- Messages
- 8,446
- Reaction score
- 7,612
Ha, honestly I'm not sure - if he is, hell of a job - fucking epic actually. I've gone back and forth on whether or not he is, and I probably won't respond to the thread again because of it, but I felt I had to detail out my thoughts one more time given that the thread is still active.
- Joined
- May 6, 2007
- Messages
- 6,845
- Reaction score
- 8,955
Agree with this. Like you said, it happened and I don't think it was staged or fake. But in defense of @Da Speeit's take, it was Rampage kind of out of his element and of course a contender or defending UFC champ is going to take rolling with the color commentary guy lightly, at least before getting caught in a sub. With Rampage in particular, he's not a BJJ guy - I mean look at this footage of him drilling grappling from the 2007 All Access:
Looks like he's half-assing it and would rather be trying to put an elbow through the guy's skull. From his fights and his comments, he hates BJJ and his style is "whoop dat ass," not subbing guys on the ground.
I agree with everything you've posted but this can't be ignored. Cardio, even over one all-or-nothing 5 minute roll can be a big factor, compensating for a skill gap. Rogan is in phenomenal shape for his age but he's not training for BJJ competition.
Here he is weighing in at 205 lbs ripped:
For 5' 6" (or however tall he is, I don't care - he's a shorter guy), that's fucking massive. There are lots of 5' 6" 205 lbs guys with a gut but being that big with a 6 pack is competitive bodybuilder territory. Factoring in age and being a little rusty due to not training regularly (if indeed he's not) Rogan's grappling cardio is likely dogshit.
I don't care if @Da Speeit is trolling - it's an interesting topic to think about. Rogan is likely average+ BB skill level. He assuredly demolishes the "average blue belt" any way he wants. But I think a 205 lbs "average skill level" purple who trains 3 x week, is 20 years younger and prioritizes grappling training gives Rogan problems.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2012
- Messages
- 1,527
- Reaction score
- 754
I'm still claiming he has a heavy mental retardation.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2018
- Messages
- 3,627
- Reaction score
- 3,041
Blue belt of comparable age and size would get absolutely destroyed by Rogan.
A 20 something former NCAA wrestler with a blue belt, or just a really big athletic guy in his 20's that's been training a few years, not so much.
The belt system has more to do with knowledge than anything else. A friend of mine that was an international wrestler could tap his 50 year old BJJ coach on day 1 just from stuff he had picked up in the mat room and in the Army over the years. Not sure what the guy that runs the BJJ gym he trains at is ranked, but I would assume a black belt being that he's don it for most his life. They're about the same size (around 5'10" 200lbs I would guess), but my buddy is about 15 years younger and built like an NFL running back. The coach is built like a 50 year old dude that works out but doesn't take peds.
A 20 something former NCAA wrestler with a blue belt, or just a really big athletic guy in his 20's that's been training a few years, not so much.
The belt system has more to do with knowledge than anything else. A friend of mine that was an international wrestler could tap his 50 year old BJJ coach on day 1 just from stuff he had picked up in the mat room and in the Army over the years. Not sure what the guy that runs the BJJ gym he trains at is ranked, but I would assume a black belt being that he's don it for most his life. They're about the same size (around 5'10" 200lbs I would guess), but my buddy is about 15 years younger and built like an NFL running back. The coach is built like a 50 year old dude that works out but doesn't take peds.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2010
- Messages
- 102,017
- Reaction score
- 32,232
good post, but why are we so sure about this? What is it based on? Rogan being in “good shape” for a 54 year old?
dude hasn’t trained seriously for a decade now
