How to stretch to avoid tail tuck

[spiral]

I've searched the forum, but found nothing conclusive. If I missed the gem thread dealing with it, thanks for pointing it to me.

I've been looking around the internet and some of my books to find a way to fix my "tail tucking" problem in deep full squat. I reckon this is due to my lack of hamstring flexibility. But there are so many methods, and so many claims that some methods are superior while some are dangerous, that I can't really decide what to do. Are static stretch leading to loss of stretch reflex at the bottom? Are dynamic stretches useless? Are PNF stretches dangerous? I'm lost.
I'm in the process of reading Mel Siff's Supertraining chapter about stretching and flexibility, but I get headaches just by reading a page, and I'm never sure I grasp all his concepts correctly.

So far I've listed these exercises to help me:

- leg swings
- held squat stretch (also displayed here in a slightly different way)
- third-world squat (while pushing your knees with your elbows ala SS)
- superman stretch
- classic static hamstring (this, or those ones for example, but there seems to be tons of ways to do it)
-PNF hamstring stretches

Anybody had any similar problem and fixed it? Or any experience with stretches in general? Once I've trimmed down the kind of stretches I should do, I'll design a "stretch routine", but for now I just want to know what to do.

 

[BreezerD**]

Static and PNF to increase flexibility, dynamic as a warmup for actual activity seems to be the general consensus.

 

[spiral]

Static and PNF to increase flexibility, dynamic as a warmup for actual activity seems to be the general consensus.

Ok, I get the consensus point, which will be helpful for proper programing. Now about the actual stretching exercises selection, does anybody has any advice?

 

[BreezerD**]

Ah. Leg swings are good to warm up - you can do them laterally as well to stretch the abductors and adductors.

As for static and PNF

Static
-Rip's squat stretch
-Squat stretch holding rack
-Classic hamstring with towel or rope on sole of foot

You can do a PNF variation of that hamstring stretch using a towel too. Most other PNF stuff requires a partner. You can also do it by resting your heel on a coffee table / back of sofa / table and push your heel down into it.

There's probably a lot more you can do, I'll leave this for others to add their input.

 

[takeahnase]

Just sit down in a deep squat (holding onto something if this is necessary to keep an upright position) and move around in that position a bit. Go down to around where the tucking starts and go deeper as your flexibility increases.

 

[ShadowNINku]

you mentioned most of it all

I began doing the "3rd world"stetches and the other one atg holding on to something between sets of my supplemental exercises

and I always warm up with leg swings and I'm getting more height on the swings but don't feel like they're helping my squat flexibility much compared to the static stretching..I dunno

 

[spiral]

Ok, thanks, this seems to cover it. I'll also read my new book (the one I'm talking about in the other thread) for additional info, but what you told me should do the trick. I hope I'll be able to squat ATG without any tail tuck one day

 

[spirez]

To be a bit more precise, it's believed that the lateral hamstrings are responsible for the butt tucking.

I can't remember if it's in part one or two but check out the vids on active isolated stretching here:

YouTube - TheNQC's Channel

They do a stretch for the lateral hamstrings using a rope to pull the leg into external rotation as you stretch.

These AI stretches are great to do between sets during your rest period. I tend to use reps of 10.

Another one that is real good but also real hard to explain, but i'll give it a go!

Basically you start off in the bottom of a single leg deadlift position:

From here, you would move the left side of your body downwards, pivoting at the hip, and should feel a stretch on the outside of the posterior thigh.

Hard to explain so I've knocked up a quick vid but i'll have to post it after youtube has processed it.

 

[spirez]

Ok, so i start off roughly neutral, then i drop my hips slightly so that my back faces the camera. THis is the position to stretch the lateral hammys. From there i open my chest up towards the camera and get a stretch in the groin.

I finish up going back to the hamstring stretch by moving in the opposite direction.

This stretch might also hit your external hip rotators if they're particularly tight.



Note, usually i'd do it standing side on from whatever i'm holding onto as i feel it's a little more comfortabel but couldnt do it here due to space restrictions. THis way you dont twist your spine as much, as i twist through it a little in the vid.

And i suggest experimenting with different degrees of knee bend from 0-20-ish degrees.

Hope this helps

 

[BreezerD**]

Things I learned from that video:

spirez owns dreadlocks.

 

[spiral]

Ok, based on what I just read in Greg Everett's book, I present to the world... my stretch routine!
------------------------
■On wake-up :
Dynamic stretch x20
-forward leg swing
-side leg swing
-shoulder circles

■After running (or hot shower if rest day):
Static stretch circuit 4x30sec
-hamstring static stretch (done like this)
-hip-flexor static stretch (done like this with a shirt on)
-glutes stretch (done like this)
-wrist flexor stretch (pull the wrist first)
-wrist extensor stretch

■Pre-workout :
Dynamic stretch x20
-forward leg swing
-side leg swing
-shoulder circles
-wrist warmup

■Post-workout :
PNF stretch SS30sec+5x(isometric 5sec+SS5-10sec)+SS30sec
-hamstring static stretch
-hip-flexor static stretch
-glutes stretch
Static stretch circuit 4x30sec
-one-arm assisted rack stretch+two-arms rack stretch
-behind the neck bar stretch
------------------------
I've added wrist stretches too, since I need to improve racking flexibility as well.
spirez, if I get theNQC channel vid right, it's almost the same stretch, but with rotating the foot on the outside, right? I might try this once I'm a bit more flexible.

 

[NickNack]

MoM recommended the routine he made with Ascendant to me:

Add these

90-90 Hip Stretch

Hurdlers Stretch

Also should lean forward after the hurdlers stretch to turn it into hamstring stretch.

And Asian squats held whenever you can for as long as you can throughout the day.

 

[spiral]

^^^
The 90-90 Hip stretch seems nice.
The hurdlers stretch I've performed regularly with Army for a long time, and it don't seems to work with my hamstrings. Greg says in his book that hamstrings stretches relying on lumbar flexion (as in hurdlers) are not effective enough, and that lying on the back is the best way to stretch them. I will stick with his advice for now, but will incorportate the 90-90 in my routine. Thanks for the info.

 

[Crono7]

Do you do them everyday? I was looking for a thread like this

thanks a lot man.

 

[spiral]

Do you do them everyday? I was looking for a thread like this

thanks a lot man.

No, I don't do this everyday. The post-workout or running references need to take into account my current strength and conditionning routine.

I do strength workout 2-3 times a week, and I run almost every other day.

Basically, I would do PNF stretch 2-3 times a week, and classic static stretch on all the other days.

Also, I just built this program, and am in no way a stretch expert, so wait a bit before thanking me :wink:

 

[canadapride**]

I rank the -Squat stretch holding rack as #!.

Squat Rx covers this problem in good detail.

 

[spiral]

I rank the -Squat stretch holding rack as #!.

Squat Rx covers this problem in good detail.

Yes I forgot to add it. I will do it pre-workout only, though. Maybe it'll lessen the stretch reflex, but at least I won't break my lower back.

 

[spirez]

By the way, current methods suggest static stretching cold. Think of it as heating up a piece of plastic. It will be easier to stretch but is more likely to return to it's original length when cooled down.

As long as you are sensible and only use a mild stretch, you'll see benefit without injury.

It's also worth foam rolling first to improve he condition of the muscle by working out some of the knots before stretching. To use another analogy, think of a knot in an elastic band. If you remove the knot first you'll stretch effectively. But if you stretch the band first, the knot's only gonna get tighter.

Foam rolling is a great addition to flexibility work.

Static stretch before a workout or on a separate occasion to increase flexibility, static stretch after to return a muscle to it's resting length as it will shorten during exercise. As long as you have a proper dynamic warmup including leg swings etc after the stretch, it shouldn't affect your workout.

I'd do the lateral hamstring stretch from NQC from the off unless you physically can't reach that position yet.

 

[spiral]

By the way, current methods suggest static stretching cold. Think of it as heating up a piece of plastic. It will be easier to stretch but is more likely to return to it's original length when cooled down.

Interesting analogy. So static stretching and PNF to increase flexibility should not be done after workout, running or hot shower if I understand well. How about right before going to bed?

It's also worth foam rolling first to improve he condition of the muscle by working out some of the knots before stretching. To use another analogy, think of a knot in an elastic band. If you remove the knot first you'll stretch effectively. But if you stretch the band first, the knot's only gonna get tighter.

Foam rolling is a great addition to flexibility work.

Gerg Everett's book has a whole chapter covering foam rolling, I'll read it too. (I'll end up reading this book in total reverse order I'm sure.)

Static stretch before a workout or on a separate occasion to increase flexibility, static stretch after to return a muscle to it's resting length as it will shorten during exercise. As long as you have a proper dynamic warmup including leg swings etc after the stretch, it shouldn't affect your workout.

So you are advising stretches when warm, just to return muscles to their length, ok. The problem I see with all these stretches is I might not have enough time to do them all.

I'd do the lateral hamstring stretch from NQC from the off unless you physically can't reach that position yet.

My main problem being tail tucking, I'll follow your advice and try it with PNF.

 

[spirez]

Before bed, first thing after you get up etc. Butagain make sure it's only a mild stretch. With my clients i've been doing the following:

Foam roll
Static stretch
Mobility
Active warm-up
Session
Static/PNF

So yes the static and PNF at the end of the session is simply to get the muscle to return to it's normal resting length, rahter than attempting to increase ROM.

It's definitely hard to get it all in but i find doing a little bit of static on key areas at the start of the session is easier to schedule in than a separate stretching session. If i plan separate sessions, i find it too easy to skip them.