How to open someone's guard

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by bJJmON, Mar 19, 2008.

  1. bJJmON

    bJJmON White Belt

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    So today and class we practiced guard passing, the three variations we learned today worked very well while drilling the technique. They all worked very well but against some people, particularly people either much bigger or stronger than me, i could not get their closed guard open for the life of me, making passing impossible.
    I usually am pretty successful opening guard but today i rolled w/ several ppl bigger than me and had the hardest time.
    I usually start off with putting one knee under the butt, then turning my body to the side. This or i'll bridge my hips up, slide a knee in between the legs and sit back down. Or i'll stand and turn my body to the side to break open the guard.
    Today against certain people all three wouldn't work, either they'd be too strong and i wasn't able to turn my body, or w/ 2 people today i got my knee in the middle, and turned my body and their legs were long enough and strong enough to were their guard still didn't open.
    Should i just accept that some people are going to have guards that i can't open or is there other techniques that'll help?

    Thanks, and sorry for the long post
     
  2. Alfer23

    Alfer23 Yellow Belt

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    If you asked Rickson Gracie, he'd probably tell you:

    Grab his left bicep with your right arm, bend your elbow. Control that arm.

    Fish your left arm under his right leg, slide arm out and around so that you can grab left lapel. Stack up and pass to your left.

    The people on the forum though, will tell you otherwise.

    Edit: If you're wondering if you will get triangled, you should not if you control the arm, and get up into the stack quickly. It turns into a question of whether your opponent can push down with his legs harder than you can stand up with your entire body. If your left arm is inside the knee, you are pressing up in a way that makes it really difficult for that leg to press down for the triangle without breaking their own guard in the process.
     
  3. Slithers

    Slithers Green Belt

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    ^ Rickson might be able to pull that off, but most people including the threadstarter would get Triangled immediately.

    TS, just keep working at it. It will come in time. If you can create space but not break the guard due to their long legs, then try slipping knee up into combat base and break from there. If they are using strength, I like to work the standing break. They can only hold on so long...definitely my 'go to' guard break when I am frustrated.
     
  4. bJJmON

    bJJmON White Belt

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    Sorry but what exactly is the combat base and the standing opener you're talking about? I tried standing at one point and turning my body as well, still the guy's legs were long enough to hold guard and strong enough so i wasn't opening it anytime soon :icon_cry2
     
  5. JSN

    JSN Bitch Lasagna

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    well i can tell you as the guy who's usally stronger that what can get someone past me is when a guy can quickly as strongly posture up. so if you have this big dude on his back and he's got his guard closed in a vice grip, first get your torso away, then pull away then hump forward to get the person on their shoulders. that makes them lose their strong posture, and then you can start doing things.

    i used to roll with this guy who was about 185 and maybe 5'10" or so that coudl really attack me like dat from my close guard, although this guy was a strong dude as well.
     
  6. crazyjames1233

    crazyjames1233 Black Belt

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    i know a few guard passes, but really only use 2.
    the first one is the simple put your knee against his tail bone and place hands on his lower stomach as you use your elbows to press his legs open.
    the other is where i use one of my arms to throw his top leg(the one which has the foot on top of the other behind you)over my head and get into side mount. be careful with this one because if he has control of your other arm you could get triangled really easily
    another i dont use much but i would imagine is good against guys who are tall is where you take both arms and stuff them down in front of him(like you are going for his balls)and throw his legs up and stack him and roll him over.

    if none of those work, i sometimes try to stay low and keep my arms tight and wait for him to open his guard and go for a submission, as soon as he does this i explode away from him and if i cant pass to side mount i am at least out of his guard.
    course i only do no gi grappling, i dont know how effective these are with a gi on.
     
  7. No Quarter

    No Quarter Blue Belt

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    Double Underhook Pass.

    Go to Submissions 101.com for the video.
     
  8. Gsoares2***

    Gsoares2*** Banned Banned

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    I always thought Rorion taught that pass simply so he could triangle you when you tried to do it..

    the Gracie Gift
     
  9. tucker713

    tucker713 Blue Belt

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    I've been using Joe's under pass - people go for triangle, but done correctly it doesn't matter..

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_mIy2nMevlw&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_mIy2nMevlw&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
     
  10. armtriangle

    armtriangle Brown Belt

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    gotta disagree. people dont like the underleg pass because its so basic... but the basics are the basics for a reason, theyre the best moves. if you have decent posture, keep your hips in, its nearly impossible to get triangled doing the underleg pass. and it works a very high percentage of the time, and it works against long legs.
     
  11. Throatpoker

    Throatpoker Black Belt

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    I'm having the same trouble, but the biggest mistake I've been making is not sitting on my heels from the beginning, thus making my base much higher and prone to sweeps/unbalancing. Once I did that simple thing (which was explained to me btw but I just forgot), I've started to have more success in it. I'm a big guy (40" waist), so it should be easier for me to do it, but yeah, like the guys above said, you need to keep practicing. Another thing, make sure you don't put your knee in the middle of the butt, but rather on one of the cheeks. Also, right after dropping your base by sitting on your heels and controlling his or her hip (the first steps), do a shrug and sit your elbows on the inner side of the guy's knees. Check out this vid by Jaysculls:

    <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DeenCP1BOV0&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DeenCP1BOV0&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
     
  12. blanko

    blanko Guest

    people don't like THAT underleg pass because it gives no room for error on your part. There are better versions of the underleg pass than that one.
     
  13. TheMadOne

    TheMadOne Blue Belt

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    If they've got it closed tightly, you can control their biceps, head on their belly. Stand up quickly (explode!), while keeping control of their arms, once standing push your hips out and pushe their out on their knees. Almost no one with limited experience can keep their guard closed. Just make sure you get out of there once their guard is broken, or they'll get your ankle or leg!!
     
  14. Matt Majorz

    Matt Majorz Yellow Belt

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    Same two here...Dropping the elbows on his thighs is my go to pass.(I still remember the first night we learned that one...ouch) Throwing the leg aside to jump into side control is numero dos, but have to be quick and control the legs with that one, or you will get choked.
     
  15. irc

    irc Brown Belt

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    I'm tall, and by far people have the highest pass rate against me with the double under.
     
  16. Slithers

    Slithers Green Belt

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    I actually LIKE the underleg pass, but a different version that is much safer. Grabbing the bicep is the old way (before the triangle was "invented" in bjj). A safer version is to open the guard, establish combat base, control the hips, keep elbows in tight, then go for an underleg as you drop the same-side leg back and pass. keeping your elbows in tight, hand on the hip is much safer than grabbing the bicep. As you pass under you bring both arms out as opposed to leaving one arm inside...begging for a triangle.

    exactly. thanks b.


    Not to mention...it's a bit annoying that people confuse guard "breaking" with guard "passing." It happens every time.

    The question is not how to PASS. It is how to BREAK open a guard. Typically you don't 'pass' closed guard, you break open a closed guard and THEN pass.
     
  17. Reveen

    Reveen Purple Belt

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    I use that pass quite a lot actually. It is imperative that you control that left arm though; if you don't its instant triangle.
     
  18. sdbb

    sdbb Red Belt

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    I usually break it open by putting both of my elbows right above my opponent's knee (inside), posture up, and step my left leg back. Usually then they would attempt a Triangle Choke or Armbar. But I know it's coming, so I adjust.
     

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