How to counter teh Fitch

td82394

td82394

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Seriously. Say you're BJ. Or Thiag Alves. Or whoever. You're fighting Jon Fitch and he takes you down. How do you counter his top control from off you're back as far as submissions or sweeps go?

Basically, how do you deal with a top heavy wrestler who doesn't really pass and just traps your hips and lays on top of you occassionally throwing punches?
 
There really isn't much you can do. You have to remember, "The Fitch" isn't a technique. A whitebelt isn't going to pull "The Fitch" on you. It's something guys like Jon Fitch can do, A.K.A., incredible wrestlers who are also BJJ blackbelts (or very skilled in BJJ), and can freeze the action and grind on you.

All else being equal, the guy on top has the advantage...in an MMA situation with punching and elbows, he has the advantage even if the skill level isn't exactly in his favor.
 
Kind of disappointed in BJ's guard, not gonna lie. Kind of showed concerns in the GSP fight as well, I know he was gassed, but still...Diego showed a much more dangerous/active guard against Fitch, is he even a BB?
 
Prodigal Son said:
Kind of disappointed in BJ's guard, not gonna lie. Kind of showed concerns in the GSP fight as well, I know he was gassed, but still...Diego showed a much more dangerous/active guard against Fitch, is he even a BB?
Click to expand...

Diego's a brown belt under Saulo, isn't he? And a black belt in Greg Jackson's system.

I too am a little disappointed in BJ's guard. I haven't seen him pull anything off since he took Matt Hughes' back in their second fight. But to be fair... he's fought a lot of talented wrestlers who know how to defend subs and sweeps.
 
Prodigal Son said:
Kind of disappointed in BJ's guard, not gonna lie. Kind of showed concerns in the GSP fight as well, I know he was gassed, but still...Diego showed a much more dangerous/active guard against Fitch, is he even a BB?
Click to expand...

Active guard from Diego, I don't know about dangerous. Throwing up submission after submission without a setup is exciting, but I wouldn't call it skilled. I think the only thing suspect from BJ is the usual: cardio. Not his fault really. Obviously he's a trained fighter and he is in great shape, he just doesn't have the genetics for world class cardio. I don't see why not messing up Jon Fitch from guard is a reason to call question to somebody's guard skills.
 
The only way to beat fitch is to outwrestle him. BJ was doing a good job of getting back to his feet in the first two rounds, and the two takedowns he got had the entire bar (including me) going apeshit.
 
td82394 said:
Seriously. Say you're BJ. Or Thiag Alves. Or whoever. You're fighting Jon Fitch and he takes you down. How do you counter his top control from off you're back as far as submissions or sweeps go?

Basically, how do you deal with a top heavy wrestler who doesn't really pass and just traps your hips and lays on top of you occassionally throwing punches?
Click to expand...

Under the rules the UFC works under? Not a ton you can do.
 
Penn looked gassed. I think if he had energy he could have gotten to his feet.
 
Jinzumkei said:
Penn looked gassed. I think if he had energy he could have gotten to his feet.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. He had his feet on Fitch's hips several times in rounds 2 and 3, but was unable to push off like he did in the beginning of the fight.
 
BJ should've given up his back to get up. Or got an underhook from half guard and gone for a single. I think his insistence to keep full guard and stay square to Fitch was a very bad decision.
 
First, you could be GSP, but I think BJ had a good formula. Flustered his take downs the first two rounds, took him down and had his back twice, I had him winning the first two rounds. Look at everyone BJ has finished off his back, I thought when he got his back that first time, he was going to win, but Fitch had his wits a great defense. But unless you can out Fitch Fitch, I think it would be a lucky or dynamic type of finisher to get him, crushing blow out of the clinch, or getting his back and sinking in quick (though we just saw one of the best at that not be able to do it)

But Fitch has will and heart through the roof and heavy hips and just can work and work and work the whole round. People hate on him, but I thought that was a great fight, good jiu jitsu, great effort by both fighters.
 
Do what BJ did earlier in the fight or what Cain did against Brock or what Shogun did against Machida, etc. BJ wasn't able to get up like he was earlier in the fight because he was tired. It's not complicated.
 
Train with a real team that will push you, and not just your friends you're paying to be there in the comfort of your own home.
 
bj showed again tonight that if he presses people with takedowns he's dangerous as all hell. all his best victories came when he put people on their back and i was extremely impressed when he took fitch's back. i didn't expect it at all.

i was also impressed how well he defended the takedown and kept popping back up to his feet in the first 2 rounds.

but BJ needs to realize that fighting at 170 people will make him tired. that's just the nature of the game, he's simply not big enough to handle world class fighters at that weight. at 155 his problem is the explosive speed of someone like edgar, but i'm also pretty sure if he went for takedowns against frankie before he got battered on the feet he would've won both matches.

his bottom game was pretty good untill he got dead tired. he really needs to go back to 155 and fight like he fought fitch last night. if he throws his hands to setup takedowns and then take people's backs at that weight there are very few who can beat him.
 
Well, I mean, how do you fight a guy like that off you're back?
 
Let's be fair. He does more than "occasionally throw punches." That third round had a ton of solid strikes.

You have to either outwrestle him, or get away from the fence so you can stand back up from a butterfly or half guard situation IMO. He does a great job of cramming his opponents against the fence at an angle, which makes it hard to wall walk or stand up at all. And turning your back to get to the feet is a really bad idea against Fitch's style, as his fights have shown time and time again. So all in all it's very hard to do either one, thus he wins a lot.

I wouldn't bank on subbing him off your back. Aside from being a black belt himself, he's also notoriously impossible to submit. His teammates, even when he was coming up, said the only way he could be subbed was a RNC. Maybe you could use a submission to sweep, but honestly I think it would be best to get back up against Fitch, or get top position, because he's relatively weak on bottom.
 
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