how to control these fighters

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by Token7, Jul 30, 2015.

  1. Token7

    Token7 Banned Banned

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    after watching a re run of Andre Ward vs sakio bika it was almost like watching mayweather vs Madiana 1.... What does these wild fighters have in common to wear that can give problems to such skilled boxers. Not saying they won or getting in that debate I'm just saying it's very clear Ward and mayweather are the best skilled boxers right now and these 2 wild fighters def gave them more problems than most boxers.

    What do you do against guys like that? Swing wild, reckless in the clinch, dirty...how do you establish your own game

    Btw here's the ward fight:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1vPW7jVXLCo
     
  2. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    There's not a whole lot you can do. Neither of those guys has been very very handily beaten by anyone.
     
  3. NAKMUAY18

    NAKMUAY18 Brown Belt

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    I think some people underestimate how effective huge power, aggression and a good chin can be. Sure a fast, agile, technical fighter SHOULD win every time, but he has to be switched on all the time. Roy Nelson/David Tua/Butterbean only need to be successful once
     
  4. PivotPunch

    PivotPunch Red Belt

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    Tbf Stevenson did well against Bika and Bika was less reckless than usual.

    i think what both Mayweather and Ward have in common is that they arent punchers, nowdays Ward seems harder to bully and fights back if necessary liek he did against Edwin Rodriguez.

    I'm not even talking strictly about power but just sitting down on punches and trying to hurt the other guy when he comes down aggresively but reckless, I'm talking about fighting back when necessary instead of just boxing.

    That's basically what Adonis Stevenson is about he a counter puncher with a punch and that seemed to work well vs Bika at least comparedto the struggle others have had vs Bika.

    But a pure boxer who isn't looking to really hurt the guy seems to have trouble with those guys since they don't care about getting outboxed but just take the shots since the threat of getting hit isn't enough to make them stop you really have to MAKE them stop.

    Same with Dirrell when dirrell was more dominant and got more into a boxer-puncher mode instead of trying to be a pure boxer he did much better vs Bika and he won the rematch that way.

    Mayweather did kinda the opposite and was more aggressive in the first fight and while many think Maidana did very well vs Mayweatehr the first time I wasn't terribly impressed with Mayweather in the rematch either and Mayweather himself said he thought he did better in the first fight.

    And it was overall funny because while Mayweather instead of trying to up his workrate and push maidana back decided to become even more passive and more of a pure boxer in the rematch and at the same time Maidana did look good in the rematch but also made a Pacquiao - esque transition into a more textbook and conservative fighter and took less risks trying to get close, wasnt willing to take a few to give one and threw his punches straighter which probably suited Mayweather well.
     
  5. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Eh, Bika was 5 years past Ward when he fought Stevenson, and has been looking particularly mortal as of late. Older and in a higher division. He made his career on being bigger, stronger, braver, and more fit than most of his opposition. He wasn't any of those things against Stevenson.

    Ward and Mayweather hit hard enough to make people respect them. The thing about guys like Bika and Maidana is that they don't typically respect anyone until they're old. IMO, what gave Ward so much trouble against Bika was that Ward is used to being a bully on the inside, and no one bullies a guy like Bika. Floyd also has a tendency to stand his ground inside. In the first bout with Maidana he pushed him back, where in the second bout he fought more like Garcia initially always planned for. But, look at fighters who stand their ground with these men. Jaidon Codrington was hailed as a puncher. Tried to stand with Bika, even dropped him, ended up knocked out. Manfredo tried to stand his ground, got demolished.

    Victor Ortiz tried to stand his ground with Maidana, dropped him three times. Ended up with a broken face. Lopez and Karass tried to stand their ground with Maidana, neither saw the final bell. Guys like Bika and Maidana are even more dangerous if you hurt them.

    The trick to beating these men is to neutralize them, render what they do useless to actually winning the bout. In other words, don't let them hit you clean, and hit them clean while they're too busy making the fight look ugly and being hyper-aggressive so much so that they neglect technique.
     
  6. DoctorTaco

    DoctorTaco Breadhead

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    If you've ever had to fight or spar a slightly skilled spaz who's roughly your size, you realize real quick how disorienting and frustrating it is. You end up having to bite down on your mouth guard, climb off your bike and try to knock the tard out of them, hoping that if you hurt them
    They'll back off so you can collect your thoughts and box like a gentleman. For guys like me who aren't real heavy hitters, this isn't ideal.
     
  7. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    What do you say about Devon Alexander's approach vs Maidana ? Have you seen this fight ?
     
  8. tehmvp

    tehmvp WBA Super Neighborhood Champion Platinum Member

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    In a nutshell, Alexander never let Maidana do anything first.

    Out of breaks, Alexander would throw first. Combos both in and out, and plenty of clinching. That was also the last time he looked particularly good imo.
     
  9. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    He did exactly what I said should be done. Neutralization. Then hit Maidana more than he got his. Although I particularly hate lots of grabbing, it worked.
     
  10. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    Do you agree with idea, that Devon's clinching was THE factor in this fight ? I.e it changed completely the direction of the fight ...

    Do you see any way that Maidana could be more successful against a guy like Devon who 1)faster + quite good with in-out movement on the outside 2)just clinches when in close ??
     
  11. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    The similar situation was IMO in Mosley vs Margarito fight.
     
  12. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    Yep, IMO, that is the optimal approach vs aggressive guys if you have serious speed advantage and movement + some power to make them respect you ...
     
  13. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I don't know, Mosley just beat the fuck out of Margarito. Stepped around him and hit him, speared him in the gut with body-jabs. It wasn't a clinch-fest.

    And nah, I don't necessarily believe they need to be grabbed all that much. Most of those guys are actually best at mid-range, not right up on someone. A very clever and intelligent inside fighter who knows where to place shots could eat them up.

    Say someone who works on the inside like Roman Gonzalez does.
     
  14. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    About infighting vs those guys - that's interesting.

    I always thought quite the opposite. Say, in theoretical Hopkins vs Toney fight, I thought Hopkins would win just because of the dirty fighting on the inside with lots of clinching\grabbing etc. I.e I thought Toney doesn't match up well against that strategy.

    P.S.
    Though Toney had great success vs Ruiz, which may indicate that it is doable )))
     
  15. Token7

    Token7 Banned Banned

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    How does Roman Gonzalez work on the inside different from Floyd Mayweather?
     
  16. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    I don't understand the question, they're 2 completely different fighters.
     
  17. Token7

    Token7 Banned Banned

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    What is roman going to do that Floyd can't on the inside? I don't understand
     
  18. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Knock guys out.

     
  19. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    Another example of using movement + speed advantage + clinch to control aggressive fighter:

    [YT]YFnbvNsYYGw[/YT]
     

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