How to be first

[killedsirius]

So my two coaches (both of whom are excellent) want me to "be first" to the punch.
My previous issues in boxing were that I wasn't covering up enough, now I'm covering up a little too much and waiting for the counters, that hurt most women my weight, however as my coach pointed out as the competition gets better as i move up grades, i won't be hurting very many people with counters alone. So he wants me to come in behind my jab and "box off". But I suck at this. Is shadow boxing my best solution here? Or do I just continually risk it in sparring until i do eventually get good at it? I'm not the fastest learner cause i like every step broken down for me

 

[Which Doctor]

Why do you think you "suck" at "boxing off"? As in, what are your perceived deficiencies that you feel cause you to suck?

 

[killedsirius]

Why do you think you "suck" at "boxing off"? As in, what are your perceived deficiencies that you feel cause you to suck?

I prefer to hound and follow, i'm more of a harrier than a stand up a box person, but I should be able to stand up and box, it's better for my frame

 

[Which Doctor]

So it's more mindset?

If so, do you feel your mindset affects you physically (i.e. you feel tentative and/or slower w/ a jab vs. striking for the counter)?

If so, yes to the sparring, but go light with the uncomfortable style if it's that bothersome. You don't need to get blasted in full sparring waiting for the right moment to use the jab, lol.

Make a game out of it; once you start to get comfortable w/ the jab lead, get that game to a level where you can make counters happen through offence. Lead them into your office so to speak.

 

[killedsirius]

so it's more mindset?

If so, yes to the sparring, but go light with the uncomfortable style if it's that bothersome. You don't need to get blasted in full sparring waiting for the right moment to use the jab, lol.

Make a game out of it; once you start to get comfortable w/ the jab lead, get that game to a level where you can make counters happen through offence. Lead them into your office so to speak.

this!!!

 

[Which Doctor]

this!!!

It's drilling and light sparring for the comfort. Others here may also have some tricks related to technique that might make it smoother too.

Practicing it every way except hard sparring is what I would do to get over a comfort issue as fast as possible. This also helps me if I am ever being to analytical. Sometimes it's better to go out and, even accidentally, "find the feel" rather than trying to "figure the feel out" before you even start. **cue mystic oracle music** :icon_chee

 

[killedsirius]

Practicing it every way except hard sparring is what I would do to get over a comfort issue as fast as possible. This also helps me if I am ever being to analytical. Sometimes it's better to go out and, even accidentally, "find the feel" rather than trying to "figure the feel out" before you even start. **cue mystic oracle music** :icon_chee

I do a lot of light drilling in my MMA but boxing clubs have a different "vibe" here and it's usually pretty hard going LOL. I have two sparring partners, one is a two time national champ, who's a lot lighter but faster than me, and the other is a novice girl who is WAY taller and heavier than me. So I tend to resort to brute force, rather than skill, but I like your idea of trying it out light and see where i go with it

 

[TheFinerDetails]

It's risk management more than it is, "do more defensively/offensively". I had the complete opposite problem to you. I used to never get hit, I'd counter and wait on the outside all the time. But I'd only tag them maybe once or twice a round with a good heavy shot, the rest being pawing jabs and back pedaling punches. Now I get tagged a bit more, but I'm always pressuring the fight, throwing a lot more punches, trading more on the inside, "boxing off".
One thing I've learned about "boxing off", is that it's not nearly as appealing as it looks in highlight videos (until you understand it). When I first started doing it, I kept complaining about how bad I am at it, and how I can't in-fight, and that I need someone to help me, and then I reverted to my back pedaling, point scoring, method.
You have to drill and spar on the inside to learn how to box off properly (aside from having a good coach). If you box off like Ronda Rousey (no head movement), you're going to get tagged and probably get stopped in your tracks. It's when you start blocking, slipping, ducking, and countering when you start to be able to offensively work when you're "boxing off".
You should try everything you can to not be hit at all when you're boxing off, but it's more than likely going to happen. When you're this close to someone and you get tagged, you have to go into fight or flight mode. DON'T FREEZE. DON'T PUT ON THE EAR MUFFS AND SEARCH FOR PENNIES. Either keep working and firing off, or get the **** out of there.
My one extra tip for learning to "box off" that I've learned is, boxing off isn't a brawl. It's only a slugfest if you join in.

 

[Hallelujah]

[YT]I8ibl4nPmRE[/YT]

 

[Sinister]

The longer I'm in this game, the more I realize that people who just don't ever do partner drills have a lot of trouble being comfortable in each of the ranges of fighting.

 

[killedsirius]

i do do partner drills, but i just cant figure out how to get inside this v tall girl who spams punches without putting on my ear muffs and walking her down. I should be at the stage where i can be more creative than that. Maybe I need new drills

 

[Sinister]

No, you need to time her. There's a couple of drills that could help, but this is a general principal. You're likely just stepping in at the wrong moments, which gives her the half second she needs to retreat. This creates a kind of desperation in you, so you muff-up and try to bulldoze in.

Instead, follow the repose of her punch. Say, she jabs...if you can see her jab (which you should be able to if she has reach), then the second she starts to pull it back that's when you step in. Not when she's done throwing. You have to step in WHILE she's opening up.

 

[killedsirius]

No, you need to time her. There's a couple of drills that could help, but this is a general principal. You're likely just stepping in at the wrong moments, which gives her the half second she needs to retreat. This creates a kind of desperation in you, so you muff-up and try to bulldoze in.

Instead, follow the repose of her punch. Say, she jabs...if you can see her jab (which you should be able to if she has reach), then the second she starts to pull it back that's when you step in. Not when she's done throwing. You have to step in WHILE she's opening up.

Okay, that makes sense. I feel like I can bulldoze her, because she's not that strong and her footwork is straightforward, but as I move on towards better opponents that strategy will get me humiliated. So i shall work on improving my timing, it'll probably take some time

 

[aries]

^ some other advice that adds on to what Sinister said that might help you is to trigger her jab with a feint. This will help with timing her obviously as you can choose when she throws her jab. Another advantage is that you can move as she throws her jab if you get your head off line i.e. step as you slip, which will give you more time to get in range. I find that if someone is fast and tall you need every advantage you can get to get into range.

 

[shpboris]

^ some other advice that adds on to what Sinister said that might help you is to trigger her jab with a feint.

^Good advice !

IMO, it is also good to watch what world class fighters do in order to lead successfully. I think Ward is really great example to study - the guy has full bag of tricks in this area:

-multiple jabs to get in, head off center
-use in-out movement to draw a reaction - then move in
-move in at an angle - say while circling to his left
-draw the opponent in and then catch him on counter motion and go inside
-cutting off the ring and moving in behind high guard + changing elevation

 

[Sinister]

Here's a couple variations of our jab drill. The first is with the advancing opponent not permitted to jab, but has to get past the jab with defensive positioning:



The second is where both are allowed to jab:

 

[shpboris]

Here's a couple variations of our jab drill. The first is with the advancing opponent not permitted to jab, but has to get past the jab with defensive positioning:

The first drill looks quite complex for a guy moving forward as there is no threat for a defending guy.

 

[shpboris]

The second drill looks very natural - i.e despite not going with full force/speed, both guys act like the punches are dangerous. Also they try a lot of things - not waste their time. Looks really smooth ...

 

[killedsirius]

the first drill is partciualrly useful for my situtaion

 

[Sinister]

If you're a forward-moving fighter you first learn the value of the jab by trying to get in without your own, and it's all the opponent can use to keep you off. Then you learn to insert your jab into the necessary positions needed to get past their jab, so you don't have to go for big punches all the time.