How to avoid this?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by shs101, Jan 21, 2015.

  1. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    How do you avoid quick counters like this?

    Mendes knocks down also with his counter. Around 20 seconds
    http://youtu.be/dZ6FxGaYeBQ

    What did Jose do wrong? Technically he didn't look like he was leaning or out of position? Is it because he stepped in with the body punch with no set up?

    Willing to have a worthy conversation to solve this as I see this in boxing too. Crazy because of how fast aldo is with both his hands and reflexes and still managed to get caught.
     
  2. Sinister

    Sinister Doctor of Doom Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    He was moving back with his weight up, hence his foot flying out from underneath him.
     
  3. Aikidoka

    Aikidoka Chief Troublemaker Double Yellow Card

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    Yep.
     
  4. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    Yea he feinted the jab and got low to get inside but he got very close then straightened up and tried to move back through the danger zone in bad position.

    To avoid that, he should have kept his level low and turned or rolled before pulling out. An option I like is to slip left then pivot left, or roll out to the right if the left hook is coming.
     
  5. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    I heard Virgil Hunter sayig to Ward in the his last fight when you get close, don't pull straight back, go off to the side. I'm guessing this is the reason?
     
  6. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    Exactly. If you pull straight back, you're moving through the other guy's punching range with no threat of offense. You're giving him a free shot while your head is right there. He doesn't have to make any adjustments.
     
  7. Aikidoka

    Aikidoka Chief Troublemaker Double Yellow Card

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    Roll out of it.
     
  8. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    It's the intricacies like that is why I love boxing. Did the punch with no set up have anything to do with it, too? I cant tell if it's an uppercut to the head or body (looks like body) but either way Mendes did a great job on capitalizing.
     
  9. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    He did set it up. Watch him change levels and stick his left arm out a little before that uppercut. Mendes shells up and starts ducking, so Aldo throws it to the body. But Mendes is all about that type of counter, so even if you set him up well and land the shot you have to be ready for him to throw back. If you get out of position just because you landed, he's still gonna be there ready to hit back and that's when you're in trouble.
     
  10. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    To me, it looked like he left his body shot stuck out as if he were admiring his work, against someone else who is lightning fast. I'm like a mortal watching Goku fight, so I had to reply it like 20 times, but yeah, he sort of just hung out in front of him after the hit and left his hand out there for a split second.
     
  11. shs101

    shs101 Blue Belt

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    After re-watching it, do you think it was the stepping back or did he stand more straight up??? Or do they kind of facilitate each other.... What would have happened if he would have stepped back but lower?
     
  12. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    If he literally just stepped back while in a lower stance he'd still get hit, and probably still go down. But if he got lower after the uppercut, the natural motion would be to duck slightly to the left. From there he could pivot out, or roll under. So they facilitate each other. Standing up straight and pulling straight back leave him completely exposed. But if he got lower, it would give him greater ability to move defensively plus defense naturally built into his attack.
     
  13. facePuncher7

    facePuncher7 Founder of the militant wing of the Salvation Army

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    He initiated an exchangr in close then stood up straight and moved straight back. Against a decent counter puncher that is asking for trouble, and Aldo certainly got it there.
     
  14. nottingham90

    nottingham90 Yellow Belt

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    I actually disagree with this. I don't thin he set it up, the subtle level change was just one of Aldo's tendencies to over commit into his punches, and as for the arm I'm pretty sure that was by nature and not design. I think the reason he got dropped was highly due to a poor or visually no set up. If he had set up properly and didn't over commit he could have actually landed the punch clean and/or distracted Mendes enough so he wouldn't be able to counter that easily.

    I think that's one of MMAs boxing biggest flaws is heavily over committing/non set up (they kind of facilitated each other here which is a recipe for disaster) on punches. Which leads to most reactive takedowns and counters such as this. Just my 0.02..

    Feel free to change my mind though...
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2015
  15. Discipulus

    Discipulus Black Belt

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    Trust me, that's a problem boxing to, not just MMA.

    And this is definitely a set-up:

    [​IMG]

    The level change and feint jab drew Mendes' eye and got him to dip into the uppercut, though he did block it with his elbow. Aldo, as both Luis and James have already stated, made the mistake of standing up right in front of Mendes and backing up straight through his power arc.

    I'm guessing he thought he was covered with that hand up, but at the very least he could've stuck a jab out there to cover his retreat, or not backed out straight at all. And if he'd stayed low he might've been able to shake the punch off.

    It was also a hell of a counter, so I can't fault the champ too much for being surprised. That's about as good a catch n' counter as you could ask for.
     
  16. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    No, Aldo feinted a jab then came up with his uppercut:

    [​IMG]

    Frame 1: Aldo squats down and extends the arm.

    Frame 2: Mendes reaches to parry the feinted jab

    Frame 3: Mendes shells up and bends to his left when he realizes another punch is coming. His high guard takes his elbow out of position, so the uppercut hits him in the body.

    Frame 4: Aldo tries to move straight back and gets clipped with a tight hook counter.

    The setup was there, he had Mendes on the defensive. But he wasn't expecting Mendes to throw back, so he had no defense on his exit. If anything I would argue that Aldo threw a bad uppercut (look at his right hand in frame 2), which is how Mendes saw it coming despite the setup. And even still, it's his exit that's really the problem.

    That's because of how difficult it is to get into range. Guys don't have confidence in their defense, so they're very jumpy about distance. Most guys don't know how to do it safely, so they just try to do it as quickly as possible. The future of MMA striking is fights like Hendricks vs Lawler and Aldo vs Mendes, where they actually stand close enough to hit each other.
     
  17. Aikidoka

    Aikidoka Chief Troublemaker Double Yellow Card

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    Dominic Cruz always dodges the counter hook. He steps in, does what he does and he either jabs out at an angle or steps out by bobbing his head.
     

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