How tf was Jeff Monson

[brendan raedy]

Don't know how far back we'd have to rewind the clock in order to be evaluating a relatively healthy Monson, but I saw him in matches against guys like Almeida, Ribeiro, Brandon Vera, Dave Avellan and others during the early 2000s. The majority were GQ matches at Marist High School, but I think I also might have seen him in a match at a Maxercise tournament & in a few matches at a Naga Battle at the Beach ('03 or '04. Whenever they first had an Expert division & it carried a cash prize).

Overall, it was clear he was very hard to turn or sweep, but I don't recall a lot of impressive takedowns. His matches tended to be dull.

Now, in his defense, his reputation sort of preceded him & guys often pulled guard. But, I do recall instances where a few would choose to fight the standup battle with him (Almeida & Avellan come to mind) and would do better than I would of expected [given Monson's wrestling credentials].

What weight did Monson wrestle in college? If he was at 190 or heavy, that might be part of your answer. Obviously, you are going to see less mobile attacks in general at a heavier weight than say, 125 or 157. The upper weights often come down to one takedown, or riding.

The other thing that is worth pointing out, by the time a college wrestler's career is over and moves to BJJ, for instance, they are probably 22 or 23, but they have the injuries of your average 40-50 year old. No joke. Wrestling 100 something matches for 10-15 years, cutting weight year round really takes a toll. Getting into BJJ at 24-25 you have already missed a lot of your athletic prime.

Even good wrestlers in BJJ are often not drilling takedowns that often. You might do maintenance, but you are not going to spend that long on something you are already far ahead on. So things get rusty.

Wrestlers often might be tactical in close matches too, knowing if they can keep it close and decide the match by a takedown, that will almost always favor them. The high flying match is one they stand a good chance of getting caught in.

 

[Uchi Mata]

Anybody trying to diminish the accomplishment of being a Pac10 Wrestling champ is either trolling or incredibly ignorant. The talent pool for Pac10 wrestling alone is likely far deeper than the entire world of BJJ. Now, in terms of why a good wrestler might not look as good as you would expect in BJJ?

1) Wrestling for Jiu Jitsu (or MMA) is NOT the same thing as wrestling for wrestling. The number of attacks and freedom to finish is seriously altered by the presence of submissions and guard pulls. Just the very fact that people are ok with going to their back flips wrestling on its head and produces reactions wrestlers are unaccustomed to. That unpredictability prevents a lot of the "smooth" takedowns and moves you see in wrestling matches where both athletes are on the same script, so to speak.

2) Shoes. It's a lot harder to drive through shots, cut corners, and do lots of other wrestling movements without shoes. Especially on wrestling mats with no tatami surface and as sweat makes things slippery.

3) Age. Wrestling is a young man's sport. The speed and power it requires goes fast. Wrestling is a strictly weight class sport (no absolute) so there is no real imperative like in BJJ to learn how to wrestle against someone who is bigger (or stronger/faster) than you. The thinking is more: he is stronger than you? Get stronger yourself. Speed you can deal with to a degree by tie ups but against people your size.

4) Injuries. I'm sure Monson has plenty. After you blow out your shoulder(s) it is almost impossible to suck a leg in and finish against someone with a good sprawl. Back, hips, it takes everything and if one link in the chain is out you are in trouble.

In addition to that, style matters a lot. I used to train BJJ with a D1 All American who won almost all his matches by being dominant from referee's position on top and always escaping from the bottom. He rarely scored on TDs in the first period, it just wasn't what he concentrated on (he had good TDs by BJJ standards of course but just didn't really like to shoot much). I don't know what Monson's style was, but given how much he likes sub grappling it wouldn't surprise me if he was more of a mat wrestlers than a standing wrestlers in his collegiate days.

Ben Askren used to be much the same way early in his college career: great counter wrestler, great mat wrestler, not the best on offense from the feet.

 

[Dogstarman]

A pac 10 wrestling champion. Guy has awful takedowns. I have been watching some videos of him in grappling competition and he is getting takedown and dominated by nobodies. Its quite embarrassing. I have no clue as to how this man possibly won a pac 10 title. It baffles me. Here is video proof:

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2ya-3bIrFo[/YT]

He is old and who knows how many injuries he has.

They named a choke after him. Back off of him.

 

[sb413197]

I know wrestlers who can't shoot doubles any more because their knees are too shot. Stuff like that will make it harder. Age sucks - people don't understand how much physical abilities effect performance in grappling. Props to him for getting in there and grappling still.

 

[November]

He is old and who knows how many injuries he has.

They named a choke after him. Back off of him.

Here is prime Jeff Monson getting takedown by a jiu jitsu guy.

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xfgXDHd5mM[/YT]

 

[Uchi Mata]

Here is prime Jeff Monson getting takedown by a jiu jitsu guy.

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xfgXDHd5mM[/YT]

How to embed:

['yt']6xfgXDHd5mM['/yt']

Remove the quotes and you'll have an embedded video. You only need the URL strnig after the '=' sign.

 

[platfox]

If you are wondering how good of stand up JM needed to win a Pac 10 championship, you should look for footage of him at that tournament or at least in that format instead of looking at sub grappling matches.

 

[brendan raedy]

Here is prime Jeff Monson getting takedown by a jiu jitsu guy.

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xfgXDHd5mM[/YT]

Do you even understand what you are watching? Monson took a shot, but then conceded the takedown in order to avoid being guillotined or having his back taken.

In a wrestling match he clearly would have driven through to continue the attack or circled to his feet.

This example is about as indicative of Monsons' wrestling ability as Matt Hughes taking a knee to the face while shooting on Tiago Alves.

 

[SuperAzn812]

You should tell him that he sucks.

 

[Shot]

Monson is a grappling legend. Look up what he's accomplished and learn about the art.

 

[Shot]

Do you even understand what you are watching? Monson took a shot, but then conceded the takedown in order to avoid being guillotined or having his back taken.

In a wrestling match he clearly would have driven through to continue the attack or circled to his feet.

This example is about as indicative of Monsons' wrestling ability as Matt Hughes taking a knee to the face while shooting on Tiago Alves.

This. And he wasn't just going against a "jiu jitsu guy" Ricardo Almeida is an amazing grappler who's medaled 3-4 times at ADCC, and at the time he had one of the more dangerous guillotines in the sport.

 

[Dogstarman]

Here is prime Jeff Monson getting takedown by a jiu jitsu guy.

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xfgXDHd5mM[/YT]

Do you even trane, bro?

 

[the heed]

Here is prime Jeff Monson getting takedown by a jiu jitsu guy.

you are right..
he is terrible....



Abu Dhabi Combat Club
2009 ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championships Bronze Medalist
2005 ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championships Gold Medalist
2001 ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championships Silver Medalist
2000 ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championships Silver Medalist
1999 ADCC Submission Wrestling World Championships Gold Medalist
International Federation of Associated Wrestling Styles
2012 FILA Grappling World Championships Senior No-Gi Gold Medalist
2011 FILA Grand Prix Espoir No-Gi Absolute Silver Medalist
2008 FILA Grappling World Championships Senior No-Gi Gold Medalist
2007 FILA Grappling World Championships Senior No-Gi Gold Medalist
International Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Federation
2007 IBJJF World Jiu-Jitsu Championships Black Belt No-Gi Absolute Gold Medalist
2007 IBJJF World Jiu-Jitsu Championships Black Belt No-Gi Silver Medalist
2001 Pan American Championships Blue Belt Gold Medalist
USA Wrestling
FILA World Team Trials Senior No-Gi Winner (2007, 2008)
FILA World Team Trials Senior No-Gi Runner-up (2009)
On the Mat
2009 Submission Grappler of the year
2004 Submission Grappler of the Year

 

[Rich959]

What weight did Monson wrestle in college? If he was at 190 or heavy, that might be part of your answer. Obviously, you are going to see less mobile attacks in general at a heavier weight than say, 125 or 157. The upper weights often come down to one takedown, or riding.

Didn't know the answer offhand, so did a quick search & he seems to have been at 190 per this link: http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/pac10/sports/m-wrestl/auto_pdf/WrestlingRecords07.pdf

So, what you're saying tracks.

 

[pojo15]

1.) Monson wrestled collegieately nearly 25 years ago, nearly 80 PRO MMA fights ago... the man has a ton of mileage on him, do you expect his wrestling to be of the same caliber nearly 3 decades later? the man is nearly 45 years old now WITH A TON OF INJURIIES

2.) I dont know if its true in Monsons case specifically but it is Possible to be an ELITE wrestling talent without exceptional takedown ability. He may have been a great defensive wrestler who won on sprawls,tilts/turns etc. he may have lost even more of his pure wrestling ability in the transfer from wrestling to BJJ/MMA where submission and strikes are allowed. I believe chael sonnen said this about Yoel Romero, dude was an olympic medalist primariily with defensive wrestling not offensive takedowns.

in any case this was nearly 25 years ago, his wrestling was likely 5x better back then as it would be for any grappling athlete if your comparing there skills in there athletic prime (early 20's) to their skills at age 45 after 80 PRO fights and numerous grappling competitions

 

[Burke72]

There's absolutely no way OP trains, or has been training long anyways. I just can't even ha Monson is legit. I find this post pretty insulting to his accomplishments and his dedication to grappling. College championships aren't just won, they're earned through years and countless hours of sweat, tears and blood. More than most of us will ever give to this sport, or any thing for that matter.

 

[brendan raedy]

There's absolutely no way OP trains, or has been training long anyways. I just can't even ha Monson is legit. I find this post pretty insulting to his accomplishments and his dedication to grappling. College championships aren't just won, they're earned through years and countless hours of sweat, tears and blood. More than most of us will ever give to this sport, or any thing for that matter.

At this point I wonder if OP even lifts.

 

[anaconda]

at this point i wonder if op even shrimps.

ftfy.

 

[crazyjames1233]

I remember commentators for the 2011 ADCC talking about how Monsons back was irritating him so much he had to keep getting up and walking around on the plane to England.
When your body is so messed up you can't even SIT DOWN I think sprawling or shooting a double leg might present some challenges.

 

[November]

Do you even understand what you are watching? Monson took a shot, but then conceded the takedown in order to avoid being guillotined or having his back taken.

In a wrestling match he clearly would have driven through to continue the attack or circled to his feet.

This example is about as indicative of Monsons' wrestling ability as Matt Hughes taking a knee to the face while shooting on Tiago Alves.

I saw Monson take a bad shot, get stuffed, and then Almeida hit a go-behind, classic wrestling counter-offense.