How patriotic are you?

[Guestx]

But again, said patrotism often blinds these peoples to other political solutions. They conflate their own political opinions/metods with patriotism, so any opinion that is not their own must by its very definition be unpatriotic.

For example, how often don't you hear "patriots" accuse people who are anti-war of being unpatriotic? The anti-war people don't want to go to war becuse they don't love their country hard enough... they don't want to go to war becuse they don't think the war will solve anything (Iraq for instance, made no-one safer).

Patriotism is continiously being used as a tool to bring conformity.

I hear what you're saying. I was raised in a very conservative, Republican sort of environment. Since then, I've ventured out into the world and met a lot of people with differing views. These days, if I were to consider myself anything it would probably be libertarian. I hold both conservative and liberal values and can understand how well-meaning people could arrive at opposite viewpoints.

I do think there is a point where certain views do cross the line into an anti-patriotism. And sometimes it's more a situation where a LACK of views has become unpatriotic.

When you (and I am speaking solely from an American point of view here, others would have to tailor this list to their own nation):

-- don't know your nation's history or give a shit

-- don't give a fuck about the Constitution, Bill of Rights or Declaration of Independence

-- don't give a fuck about the erosion of rights of the citizenry

-- feel like war is NEVER the answer

-- repeatedly talk shit about your own country and how you want to leave and go somewhere else

. . . then you are probably not patriotic. At least, that's the way I see it.

 

[Guestx]

I believe that we are currently living in the after W.Bush years when the USA went full retard. These were pretty bad years for America and educated Americans reject anything that is associated with those years. Like patriotism for example, which was associated in the american media with war support.

I think things will eventually fall back into place. The current PC/SJW crusade seems like the counter movement and is just as retarded.

Honestly, I think that for most the Bush hate is just a trendy bandwagon that they jumped onto without really knowing why. Do you know why?

 

[scrubido]

More than most. I'm eternally grateful that my parents left Mexico and came here. I despise people that disparage it.

 

[Guestx]

More than most. I'm eternally grateful that my parents left Mexico and came here. I despise people that disparage it.

That's interesting. I've noticed that often times it's Mexicans or the children of Mexicans who seem to be the least patriotic and the least willing to embrace the United States (despite risking life and limb to get here).

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I also think that patriotism is one of the things that keep citizens vested in what happens in their country, let it be the government granting rights to multinational corporations, passing liberal western reforms that are contrary to the country's tradition, flooding the country with foreigners that are not wanted ,participating in a war, etc.

Patriotism prevents political apathy, which I believe could be the greatest threat in the West currently.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

My refutation would be that if you do not know every single ideal of every single nation, you are not qualified to make the claim he did.

Sure, but maybe he does (so unless you've demonstrated he doesn't then it's not much of a refutation). Or maybe he's issuing a challenge and nobody is stepping up to the plate.

 

[scrubido]

That's interesting. I've noticed that often times it's Mexicans or the children of Mexicans who seem to be the least patriotic and the least willing to embrace the United States (despite risking life and limb to get here).

I get a lot of shit from my extended family because I don't care about Mexico and I'm a proponent of stricter immigration laws. My loyalty is to the country I grew up in and the country that has given me the chance to succeed in life.

 

[Guestx]

I also think that patriotism is one of the things that keep citizens vested in what happens in their country, let it be the government granting rights to multinational corporations, passing liberal western reforms that are contrary to the country's tradition, flooding the country with foreigners that are not wanted ,participating in a war, etc.

Patriotism prevents political apathy, which I believe could be the greatest threat in the West currently.

I'm 33. When I was younger I didn't give a shit about politics but I've found that the older I get, the more I feel like it's important to be involved in the decision-making that goes on within your government.

 

[Guestx]

I get a lot of shit from my extended family because I don't care about Mexico and I'm a proponent of stricter immigration laws. My loyalty is to the country I grew up in and the country that has given me the chance to succeed in life.

I can definitely respect that. I think it's good and understandable to understand your heritage and take pride in it, but your loyalty should first be to the nation that you're a citizen of.

 

[Iroh]

Sure, but maybe he does (so unless you've demonstrated he doesn't then it's not much of a refutation). Or maybe he's issuing a challenge and nobody is stepping up to the plate.

It's not my point to refute him though. If he could give the most elaborate and insightful elucidation about the entirety of human ideals, how they pertain to their nations and how the US ideals stack up the best against them, I'd be much happier than refuting him. But the way he explained it and the way he avoids definitively answering the simple question of knowing all ideals, I doubt that the former will come to fruition.

 

[europe1]

I'd say the best thing about Americans is the bludgeoning optimistic individualism that pervades its people ... there's a reverence for individuals succeeding at productive efforts. This contrasts with the socialist (not in a pejorative sense, in the sense of valuing community) instincts of most other developed nations, and with the corruption that infests less developed nations (where for the individual to succeed means to rob).

Watching American pop-culture, you'd get the idea that such a maxim applied to America as well:icon_chee

 

[Zer]

I got like 4 legit nationalities and 1 pretend nationality, one of which is German, so patriotism is a bit of a headache. I just prefer an all-encompassing racism

 

[Hagelslag2]

I got like 4 legit nationalities and 1 pretend nationality, one of which is German, so patriotism is a bit of a headache. I just prefer an all-encompassing racism

German it is then.

 

[Iroh]

lol

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

It's not my point to refute him though. If he could give the most elaborate and insightful elucidation about the entirety of human ideals, how they pertain to their nations and how the US ideals stack up the best against them, I'd be much happier than refuting him. But the way he explained it and the way he avoids definitively answering the simple question of knowing all ideals, I doubt that the former will come to fruition.

Yeah, I just wanted to hear about some stuff other countries were doing to make the world a better place. You know, something to give me hope.

 

[ArtemV]

I am a little bit, I enjoy voting for our home country teams (hockey, fighters and basketball), but also like to vote for others who I enjoy watching. My country is not perfect, but we get along and survive, somehow.

 

[Iroh]

Yeah, I just wanted to hear about some stuff other countries were doing to make the world a better place. You know, something to give me hope.

I know a while ago Holland was by far the most generous in donating money to charity of all European countries. Don't know how they're doing now though. They have also historically been one of the most if not the most tolerant of other religious and political believes. Even when the rest of the world was all but that. They were the first that allowed gay marriages, probably the first European country to allow people to smoke weed. These are ideals in practice.

 

[Kirin]

Depends on how you define patriotism.

I'm not one of those people who blindly follows everything this country aims for and defends it from criticisms levied against it either by citizens or foreigners. If they're apt, it's fair game.

I would say I'm patriotic in the sense that I care about the people that live here and I want what's best for the majority of them; oftentimes that means taking a critical stance against the foreign and domestic policies this nation's government propagates. When you see a litany of legislation and agendas being championed by the branches of government we've been forced to digest over the last century, it's apparent that the majority of it is put in place to oppress and rob the general populace while subjugating them to the whims of high finance/corporate elite.

I doubt most people would look at that and think "patriot", but whatever.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I know a while ago Holland was by far the most generous in donating money to charity of all European countries. Don't know how they're doing now though. They have also historically been one of the most if not the most tolerant of other religious and political believes. Even when the rest of the world was all but that. They were the first that allowed gay marriages, probably the first European country to allow people to smoke weed. These are ideals in practice.

Good for them. Probably my favorite Europeans. They're development of anti-flooding technology might save the world soon enough too.

 

[Hagelslag2]

I know a while ago Holland was by far the most generous in donating money to charity of all European countries. Don't know how they're doing now though. They have also historically been one of the most if not the most tolerant of other religious and political believes. Even when the rest of the world was all but that. They were the first that allowed gay marriages, probably the first European country to allow people to smoke weed. These are ideals in practice.

The sad thing is, is that the people that claim to be all for Dutch culture over here exhibit exactly the opposite of those traits that made the Netherlands famous around the world. In a lot of cases they are conservative, intolerant and not big on foreign aid.