How patriotic are you?

[Guestx]

Where do you watch American politics?

House of Cards

 

[Rimbaud82]

There is a difference between 'pride' in the sense of being proud of your own accomplishments, and the 'pride' you have in your country...that George Carlin guy on the first page for instance, he thinks it's clever but it's really not. Maybe some people have that kind of pride, and that is stupid, but generally the pride you have for your nation isn't pride in that sense, it's simply a sense of belonging and an affinity with the culture where you were brought up.

So yes, I would consider myself a nationalist to some degree. That doesn't mean I am jingoistic, I respect and like other cultures obviously, but I do feel an affinity with my own nation and culture. People seem to be moving away from that though.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

On topic : I think patriotism is a wonderful thing.

Unfortunately it is really dying in the West, where our once proud nations now produce citizens that care only about social media and buying electronic device on credit.

It's sad, really, and you can be sure that citizens of other countries are hungry for what we enjoy but that we are just too passive to defend.

 

[Iroh]

So you want to split hairs between "most" and "than essentially any other"? That's fine, but can you name a few names?

That's not splitting hairs, there is just an essential difference between all other and most other. If there is as much as one that has greater ideals, then what he said is simply not correct. Name names of countries? I can give you a list of all nations that exist and you can give their ideals they stand for, if you stand behind the same claim as Uchi Mata.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states

 

[europe1]

I think some people have a strong sense about national security. And some think that our culture is slowly being overrun. I am sympathetic to these concerns.

But again, said patrotism often blinds these peoples to other political solutions. They conflate their own political opinions/metods with patriotism, so any opinion that is not their own must by its very definition be unpatriotic.

For example, how often don't you hear "patriots" accuse people who are anti-war of being unpatriotic? The anti-war people don't want to go to war becuse they don't love their country hard enough... they don't want to go to war becuse they don't think the war will solve anything (Iraq for instance, made no-one safer).

Patriotism is continiously being used as a tool to bring conformity.

Patriotism, like any other word, becomes a buzz-word, which one side claims and then exploits in their marketing.

 

[Uchi Mata]

So what do all the other nations stand for? I assume you know.

Obviously lots of different things (and in many cases nothing), but America is unique in that it wasn't founded based upon historical geographic boundaries, old kingdoms, ethnic grouping, etc. Rather, it was founded solely on a set of ideals regarding the relation of men to their government with freedom at the center, a set of ideals that most other first world nations subsequently made use of when shedding their historical forms of government (mostly monarchies). So while France may be all about libertie, egalite, fraternite, its identity is still primarily French (after all, they've had a lot of different governments) in a cultural and ethnic way that has no parallel in America. Japan has a constitutional democracy, but it's hardly defined by it, it's defined by Japanese history, ethnicity, and culture. America is alone among major nations in being defined primarily by its ideals and I think they're very good ones for promoting human happiness.

 

[Guestx]

On topic : I think patriotism is a wonderful thing.

Unfortunately it is really dying in the West, where our once proud nations now produce citizens that care only about social media and buying electronic device on credit.

It's sad, really, and you can be sure that citizens of other countries are hungry for what we enjoy but that we are just too passive to defend.

Agreed on all counts.

I also think that, at least here in America, people are so eager to participate in social media and watch Netflix that they have stopped giving a shit about their rights, which are seriously under threat from today's connected, digital world. This much is evident just from the Windows 10 threads that have been floating around.

The Constitution? What the fuck is that?

 

[PG29 red0 Jr]

But again, said patrotism often blinds these peoples to other political solutions. They conflate their own political opinions/metods with patriotism, so any opinion that is not their own must by its very definition be unpatrioric.

For example, how often don't you hear "patriots" accuse people who are anti-war of being unpatriotic? The anti-war people don't want to go to war becuse they don't love their country hard enough, they don't want to go to war becuse they don't think the war will solve anything (like, say, Iraq). That's not unpatriotic at all, that's diffrence in opinion.

I agree with you. A problem we often see in the US are anti-war people attacking our soldiers when they return, when in fact it is the leaders of the military (Government) they should be against.

This turns the anti-war group into looking unpatriotic.

 

[Guestx]

Obviously lots of different things (and in many cases nothing), but America is unique in that it wasn't founded based upon historical geographic boundaries, old kingdoms, ethnic grouping, etc. Rather, it was founded solely on a set of ideals regarding the relation of men to their government with freedom at the center, a set of ideals that most other first world nations subsequently made use of when shedding their historical forms of government (mostly monarchies). So while France may be all about libertie, egalite, fraternite, its identity is still primarily French (after all, they've had a lot of different governments) in a cultural and ethnic way that has no parallel in America. Japan has a constitutional democracy, but it's hardly defined by it, it's defined by Japanese history, ethnicity, and culture. America is alone among major nations in being defined primarily by its ideals and I think they're very good ones for promoting human happiness.

Perfect.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

Wtf this post is embarassing. lol.

Sorry to be curious about something you have all the answers to already.

If there is as much as one that has greater ideals, then what he said is simply not correct.

Yep. I was wondering who you'd put in the discussion and why.

 

[Iroh]

Obviously lots of different things (and in many cases nothing), but America is unique in that it wasn't founded based upon historical geographic boundaries, old kingdoms, ethnic grouping, etc. Rather, it was founded solely on a set of ideals regarding the relation of men to their government with freedom at the center, a set of ideals that most other first world nations subsequently made use of when shedding their historical forms of government (mostly monarchies). So while France may be all about libertie, egalite, fraternite, its identity is still primarily French (after all, they've had a lot of different governments) in a cultural and ethnic way that has no parallel in America. Japan has a constitutional democracy, but it's hardly defined by it, it's defined by Japanese history, ethnicity, and culture. America is alone among major nations in being defined primarily by its ideals and I think they're very good ones for promoting human happiness.

Why are you talking about first world and major nations? Do the ideals of smaller nations in 2nd or 3rd worlds not count? I thought ideals were just ideas, doesn't take too many people or much money to have an idea.

Japan is not defined by it's ideals but by it's history? So the US is defined by it's ideals and not it's history? So can you give me the exact ideals, so it would be easier to understand if they ring true to defining your nation?

 

[europe1]

Patriotism, like any other word, becomes a buzz-word, which one side claims and then exploits in their marketing.

I agree with you. A problem we often see in the US are anti-war people attacking our soldiers when they return, when in fact it is the leaders of the military (Government) they should be against.

I've loathed such people ever since I saw First Blood.

And yeah, that's another big problem in politics. People blame the middle-men as if they were desicion-makers, or they demonize "the other" and reduce them to enemies of their cause.

 

[Rusk]

I am of mixed ethnicity living in a country where i was not born. I am tribeless.

 

[Iroh]

Sorry to be curious about something you have all the answers to already.




Yep. I was wondering who you'd put in the discussion and why.

I don't have to put any nation into the discussion. Uchi Mata included all other nations in his claims. So it's all other nations.

 

[greygoose]

I am.........during the Olympics. All kidding aside, I'd say average or less than. I would put other things before my country. Like the 'berry

 

[Hagelslag2]

I'm not too patriotic. Although I think the Netherlands have produced some very cool things in the past, our Golden Age was built over the backs of many people. Also, I've spent the last few years in the company of people from all over the world and I've come to the conclusion that there are many countries that have produced cool things and many countries that have done horrendous things.

Although I am Dutch, I spend a lot of my time in Australia and have started to speak in terms of "us" and "we" when discussing, for example, political issues. I will be cheering for Australia in the upcoming rugby world cup and last football world cup I was cheering for the Netherlands, as was my Australian girlfriend.

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

But again, said patrotism often blinds these peoples to other political solutions. They conflate their own political opinions/metods with patriotism, so any opinion that is not their own must by its very definition be unpatrioric.

For example, how often don't you hear "patriots" accuse people who are anti-war of being unpatriotic? The anti-war people don't want to go to war becuse they don't love their country hard enough, they don't want to go to war becuse they don't think the war will solve anything (like, say, Iraq). That's not unpatriotic at all, that's diffrence in opinion.

I believe that we are currently living in the after W.Bush years when the USA went full retard. These were pretty bad years for America and educated Americans reject anything that is associated with those years. Like patriotism for example, which was associated in the american media with war support.

I think things will eventually fall back into place. The current PC/SJW crusade seems like the counter movement and is just as retarded.

 

[Cubo de Sangre]

I don't have to put any nation into the discussion. Uchi Mata included all other nations in his claims. So it's all other nations.

Looking at his response I don't think I understood him correctly to begin with.

In terms of what I was asking, you don't need to do anything. I was hoping for something that resembled a refutation rather than an explanation of what might constitute proof. No worries.

 

[Zankou]

I actually don't care much for American ideals in the sense of the nation state. Anybody can have ideals. South Sudan's constitution guarantees everybody equality, education, opportunity, tolerance, and health. Place is a vicious shithole, however.

I'd say the best thing about Americans is the bludgeoning optimistic individualism that pervades its people ... there's a reverence for individuals succeeding at productive efforts. This contrasts with the socialist (not in a pejorative sense, in the sense of valuing community) instincts of most other developed nations, and with the corruption that infests less developed nations (where for the individual to succeed means to rob).

Compare with France, for example, which is an amazing nation in so many ways but where patriotism is almost impossible, everybody is pessimistic, and a sort of dour socialism hangs over everybody.

 

[Iroh]

Looking at his response I don't think I understood him correctly to begin with.

In terms of what I was asking, you don't need to do anything. I was hoping for something that resembled a refutation rather than an explanation of what might constitute proof. No worries.

My refutation would be that if you do not know every single ideal of every single nation, you are not qualified to make the claim he did.