How much strength do athletes need?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by TeddyRoosevelt, Feb 8, 2012.

  1. TeddyRoosevelt

    TeddyRoosevelt Brown Belt

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    Just linking an article on Joel's site, since I doubt many around here check it frequently. I am not done yet, so I have no commentary at the moment. The subject question is interesting in the least.

    How Much Strength Do Athletes Need?
     
  2. MilkManUK

    MilkManUK Brown Belt

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    Thank you, that looks like an interesting article for me to read during my night shift tonight.

    Will read, hopefully absorb and comment later.
     
  3. Gfreak

    Gfreak Purple Belt

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    Interesting article. I'm not really knowledgeable enough to agree or disagree on most of what he wrote lol. But it makes sense.

    It got me thinking about a sport like BJJ though, Where (IMO) the stronger you get the less advantageous it gets to spend more and more time into getting stronger (compared to when you started.) In other words, if it took you a year to go from 185lbs squat to a 350+ lbs squat, then that's a great deal of increase. However if you then trained the same amount of time for another year and only got 50 more lbs on your squat. You did indeed definately get stronger, but it seems like diminishing returns for your time investment (obviously it gets harder to improve the stronger you get.)

    Where is, or how would you determine the line for when you should switch focuses from absolute strength, to more of explosion and power or muscular endurance (note on switching FOCUSES, not saying you shouldn't be doing some of this all along). Now I know it's probably a highly personal thing as to where this line would be, along with what type of game plan you employ. But I was just curious as to what y'alls opinions are on that.
     
  4. TeddyRoosevelt

    TeddyRoosevelt Brown Belt

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    Obviously, most normal people will see diminishing returns on the time the invest into strength training. This point might be salient to you, however, at least as a rationalization to continue some form of strength work:

     
  5. LitteringAnd

    LitteringAnd Purple Belt

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    In regards to "staying fresh" vs "staying strong", I would imagine that the NFL's new collective bargaining agreement has played an impact on that. They drastically reduced the number of practice days in pads a team can have over the course of the season. Don't remember exactly, but I think it's something like 11 or 12 over the course of the season. I'm sure that having less practices where alot of hitting is involved will allow the teams' s&c coaches to do more strength work while still allowing the players to stay fresh during the season.
     
  6. Jake Pudenz

    Jake Pudenz Green Belt Professional Fighter

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    Well, from people I know in the industry, from the sounds of it, NFL s&c is more along the lines of babysitting than anything else. I'm not saying that holds true for every player or even ever team but, for the most part, that is what it is like.

    Thanks for posting the article, though, GiJoe. That was a good read.
     
  7. LitteringAnd

    LitteringAnd Purple Belt

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    That's sad and unfortunate.
     
  8. Jake Pudenz

    Jake Pudenz Green Belt Professional Fighter

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    When you get to that level, as the s&c coach, you walk a fine line trying to make them work as well as not pissing them off because these owners have millions of dollars invested in them. In the same token, if someone gets hurt under your watch, you will be gone. It is because of that, that I'm sure the coaches don't really want to push it too hard.

    Plus, outside of a few teams that I have heard of, most NFL guys don't stick around during the off season. They are off doing their own thing at other places. There are private gyms that do push these guys such as Bommarito's and DeFrancos but then there are other places that will baby the shit out of them for fear of pissing them off. I have witnessed both these things first hand.
     
  9. Gfreak

    Gfreak Purple Belt

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    @ GiJoe.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm definately not talking about stopping strength training. I"m talking about switching your focuses from maximum strength development, to more power/explosiveness, or muscular endurance. While putting your strength on maintenance.
     
  10. Jake Pudenz

    Jake Pudenz Green Belt Professional Fighter

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    I think a good, balanced program for athletes should address all three.
     
  11. MilkManUK

    MilkManUK Brown Belt

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    This. I have read and re-read but it's too much for me to process.
     
  12. scoopj

    scoopj ackson

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    You've got "nights" I take it?
     
  13. Tosa

    Tosa Red Belt

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    I think "Science and Practice of Strength Training" does a better job of addressing the subject matter. Of course I'm comparing a textbook to an internet article, which isn't entirely fair.
     
  14. dragonfly

    dragonfly Yellow Belt

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    I like "Easy Strength" by Pavel and Dan John. It's like my bible and it touches upon these issues without being overly technical.
     
  15. MilkManUK

    MilkManUK Brown Belt

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    Haha yep, nights tonight and tomorrow, "lates" next week.
     
  16. wildnuts

    wildnuts White Belt

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    :icon_lol:

    More/bigger muscle allows for more strength. More strength provides the potential for more power. BUT, obviously, at a certain point, proprioception and neural drive must be developed for this larger or newer muscle mass. In general, sport-specific exercise and training close the gap and allow for the creation of usable power.

    So, to answer the question "How Much Strength Do Athletes Need?, since we all adapt/learn at different rates, the point where strength training needs to stop and sport-specific training needs to begin will vary on the individual. Therefore, athletes should get as much strength training as is possible, while keeping an eye on the amount of time it will take them to adapt to the newly gained strength.
     
  17. TeddyRoosevelt

    TeddyRoosevelt Brown Belt

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    Zatsiorsky addresses a whole host of subject matter better than any internet article I can think of. And after reading the full article, I was disappointed. I get upset when someone writes an article outlining a theoretical framework for strength training, but fails to provide any practical programming suggestions.
     
  18. LitteringAnd

    LitteringAnd Purple Belt

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    I do like the acectdote about Dave Meggett.

    It made me do some thinking about my own strength training. I'm currently just a gym warrior with nothing to train for and the goal of getting stronger. I'm quite a ways from being "strong enough", but I think it illustrates that at some point I will probably be "strong enough" and will want to expand my training to include other things while being okay with slower strength progression.
     
  19. DrBdan

    DrBdan Something clever

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    It's an interesting article and seems to do a good job of explaining all the issues but like GiJoe said, it's a bit disappointing that he doesn't offer any practical training advice. I guess it's more a piece to read, think about, and discuss with your trainers or trainees.
     

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