how much experience to be 'legit'

The Information age aka era of the internet ... give me 1 year and I could become a good coach.

This is one of the reasons why MMA and the gaming scene had a huge advantage over other sports.

I'll give you 2-3 years, and I promise you will not be a "good" coach by any stretch of the imagination.
 
I knew a coach that did just that, his fighter got beat badly, had 2 black eyes, swollen face, etc.......this same coach then made fun of the guy and his injuries.

Some of them like to watch sufferings.
 
I'll give you 2-3 years, and I promise you will not be a "good" coach by any stretch of the imagination.
I heard somewhere that it takes six years to learn to box properly. Not saying I believe in any exact figure, but boxing is a craft that takes years to refine/learn and teaching is as skill few ever acquire in any craft. It is one thing to be able to repeat information, it is another thing entirely to actually understand that information and what it pertains too.
 
I'll give you 2-3 years, and I promise you will not be a "good" coach by any stretch of the imagination.
It's a bit like @spacetime talking about angles in another thread. It's not that he was actually wrong, but it is the where, why, and how that gives information relevance. And to teach that properly you need a solid understanding of the subject.
 
It's a bit like @spacetime talking about angles in another thread. It's not that he was actually wrong, but it is the where, why, and how that gives information relevance. And to teach that properly you need a solid understanding of the subject.

It's not rocket science
 
No, but its something you have no practical experience with. Much like rocket science.
 
Just completed my first Judo randori session, having lost two of two matches against senior belts. Lot's of sage commentary here and I thought I'd reflect given my beginning 'sparring' by Judo.
A coaches fighting record is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the success of their students.
I just like the tone of this whole idea. I don't have a clue what the competition experience is of the two Judo instructors at my Judo. I do know I'm getting the throws (and holds) to work and their explanations are sound in doing so.

I can believe that.

With MMA being such a new sport it’s not hard to imagine the standard of coaching is not great in many places. I think the coaching in sports with an established Olympic program such as Gymnastics or swimming is vastly superior.
But Judo has been around for 150 years whatever. MMA keeps pretending like martial is something new know that we have cage fights.

I thought this was one of Dewey’s better video’s;<4>



A good coach is not so much about a clear knowledge of all techniques although that is a requirement. It’s about knowing how much an athlete should be training, when they should pick it up, when they need a confidence booster, what techniques are a game changer at the level they are at and a bunch of other factors.

I watch his videos now & then. He's knocking himself out to explain MMA type fighting & competition. He often prefaces that he started out in TKD, but left it for numerous reasons. I see that as both a plus & minus.

The other aspect to this is should Dewey be a big cheese on YouTube/semi-famous despite having a very average MMA record.

Yes in my opinion because he’s never committed plagiarism, lied about his credentials, given people a false sense of confidence or put out dangerous techniques.

There might be hundreds of guys out there at his level but youtube is a business in its own right and he’s not done anything unethical.
I feel Ramsey (did I get that?) is earnestly invested in his MMA. And constantly trying to improve. Who can argue with that, if MMA is your goal? The sport currently often doesn\t muster in it's practice of martial arts. The Maycee Barber post-fight barrage a clear symptom.

There are other youtubers putting out dangerous Mcdojo techniques that I do have a problem with.
I came across a response once from YT that a blue belt is higher than a black-belt in karate. Or was it judo/ Same difference. And they knew better.{<BJPeen}

difficult to say...........theres crap coaches with tons of experience and great coaches with little and even no experience..........and everything in between....you got guys that may have only trained for a few years and had a lot of fights in that time............and also guys with little or no fight experience that have been training for a very long time.......fight experience is important..........but so is experience, knowledge, and a understanding of the sport, its concepts, applications, and how to actually apply them........i dont think you have to fight to know what your talking about, but there are things that can only be learned by fighting, i feel it gives you a deeper undestanding.
The other side of MaBobs's coin. I think both are arguments are legitimate. Results, though, has to trump all.

Sometimes tons of experience just means that the guy spent more time reinforcing wrong/stupid shit, so there's that.

Also lots of really bad trainers/teachers who happened to attract talent...

Guys with academic training that cant put to practice all the theory....

So many variables.
I attempted to talk about some Judo theory breakdown... not well recieved @ TSF. Divas.<41>

It's a bit like @spacetime talking about angles in another thread. It's not that he was actually wrong, but it is the where, why, and how that gives information relevance. And to teach that properly you need a solid understanding of the subject.

It's not rocket science
Ha, ha. You're the best at saying, knowing nothing, when you really know everything.<StillMyBoy>

No, but its something you have no practical experience with. Much like rocket science.
Boxing, I'm just looking mostly at footwork now. But it sure seems absent in much of MMA. No replacement for a dedicated, one art program. IMO.

Not rocket science, but science for sure.<5>
 
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Just completed my first Judo randori session, having lost two of two matches against senior belts. Lot's of sage commentary here and I thought I'd reflect given my beginning 'sparring' by Judo.

I just like the tone of this whole idea. I don't have a clue what the competition experience is of the two Judo instructors at my Judo. I do know I'm getting the throws (and holds) to work and their explanations are sound in doing so.


But Judo has been around for 150 years whatever. MMA keeps pretending like martial is something new know that we have cage fights.


I watch his videos now & then. He's knocking himself out to explain MMA type fighting & competition. He often prefaces that he started out in TKD, but left it for numerous reasons. I see that as both a plus & minus.


I feel Ramsey (did I get that?) is earnestly invested in his MMA. And constantly trying to improve. Who can argue with that, if MMA is your goal? The sport currently often doesn\t muster in it's practice of martial arts. The Maycee Barber post-fight barrage a clear symptom.

I came across a response once from YT that a blue belt is higher than a black-belt in karate. Or was it judo/ Same difference. And they knew better.{<BJPeen}


The other side of MaBobs's coin. I think both are arguments are legitimate. Results, though, has to trump all.


I attempted to talk about some Judo theory breakdown... not well recieved @ TSF. Divas.<41>




Ha, ha. You're the best at saying, knowing nothing, when you really know everything.<StillMyBoy>


Boxing, I'm just looking mostly at footwork now. But it sure seems absent in much of MMA. No replacement for a dedicated, one art program. IMO.

Not rocket science, but science for sure.<5>
Good to hear your getting into judo. I personally believe that it is one of the best traditional styles.
 
Just completed my first Judo randori session, having lost two of two matches against senior belts. Lot's of sage commentary here and I thought I'd reflect given my beginning 'sparring' by Judo.

I just like the tone of this whole idea. I don't have a clue what the competition experience is of the two Judo instructors at my Judo. I do know I'm getting the throws (and holds) to work and their explanations are sound in doing so.


But Judo has been around for 150 years whatever. MMA keeps pretending like martial is something new know that we have cage fights.


I watch his videos now & then. He's knocking himself out to explain MMA type fighting & competition. He often prefaces that he started out in TKD, but left it for numerous reasons. I see that as both a plus & minus.


I feel Ramsey (did I get that?) is earnestly invested in his MMA. And constantly trying to improve. Who can argue with that, if MMA is your goal? The sport currently often doesn\t muster in it's practice of martial arts. The Maycee Barber post-fight barrage a clear symptom.

I came across a response once from YT that a blue belt is higher than a black-belt in karate. Or was it judo/ Same difference. And they knew better.{<BJPeen}


The other side of MaBobs's coin. I think both are arguments are legitimate. Results, though, has to trump all.


I attempted to talk about some Judo theory breakdown... not well recieved @ TSF. Divas.<41>




Ha, ha. You're the best at saying, knowing nothing, when you really know everything.<StillMyBoy>


Boxing, I'm just looking mostly at footwork now. But it sure seems absent in much of MMA. No replacement for a dedicated, one art program. IMO.

Not rocket science, but science for sure.<5>

Rocket science analogy.

Someone can explain rocket science to another.......but understanding it is another thing. Understanding it, usually doesn't come without experience, or years of studying it, or a combination of both.

More than 1 way up the mountain.

Generally speaking, the majority of great coaches have not been the greatest fighters ever, but some experience as well as the years of training are there.

That being said there's always exceptions to the rules...both my boxing coach and my main muay thai padman had never officially competed...although sparring experience as well as years of training were there
 
I'll give you 2-3 years, and I promise you will not be a "good" coach by any stretch of the imagination.

For perspective I've got 17 years of boxing experience, actively fighting and training. I would be an absolutely atrocious coach. Coaching isn't just about skill or experience, it's far more about the understanding the intricacies of what you're doing and then being able to transfer that knowledge in an understandable fashion to a student who is then able to put it into use.

People who have never fought can be amazing coaches if they understand the motion of the body for each punch and are able to teach that to someone who is learning. Anyone who thinks coaching is easy like @ConorFacts is kidding themselves.
 
For perspective I've got 17 years of boxing experience, actively fighting and training. I would be an absolutely atrocious coach. Coaching isn't just about skill or experience, it's far more about the understanding the intricacies of what you're doing and then being able to transfer that knowledge in an understandable fashion to a student who is then able to put it into use.

People who have never fought can be amazing coaches if they understand the motion of the body for each punch and are able to teach that to someone who is learning. Anyone who thinks coaching is easy like @ConorFacts is kidding themselves.

You also have to deal with the fact that your fuckups get other people hurt. Most coaches respond to that with apathy and negativity towards their students. That is usually the wrong answer.
 
Good to hear your getting into judo. I personally believe that it is one of the best traditional styles.
Funny, we in the class don't really think about it as best or less, whatever. Judo holds a certain appeal to us. We're all there exploring the merits.
 
Rocket science analogy.

Someone can explain rocket science to another.......but understanding it is another thing. Understanding it, usually doesn't come without experience, or years of studying it, or a combination of both.

More than 1 way up the mountain.

Generally speaking, the majority of great coaches have not been the greatest fighters ever, but some experience as well as the years of training are there.
I would think experience would or could be a substantial factor. Freddie Roach comes to mind.<Prem974>
That being said there's always exceptions to the rules...both my boxing coach and my main muay thai padman had never officially competed...although sparring experience as well as years of training were there
The Mabob's? bottom line appeals to me. No hard & fast rule about helping people achieve results.<{coachie}>
 
You also have to deal with the fact that your fuckups get other people hurt.
Yup.

Rarerly but some sadistic coaches allow clear mismatches - smokers, exibition bouts, considerably less frequently competitive bouts.
 
so, was just thinking, how much experience and what quality of experience does the sherdog standup forum think is necessary to be considered legit for the purposes of teaching/training/coaching?

For example Ramsey’s Dewey has a pro record of 3-4 in MMA should people take him as seriously as they seem to, at least on YT?

What about an amateur with a record of 4-1 in a local promotion?


images


8647eed60fe1d9c0459af16d7db10fc4.jpg
 
I would think experience would or could be a substantial factor. Freddie Roach comes to mind.<Prem974>

The Mabob's? bottom line appeals to me. No hard & fast rule about helping people achieve results.<{coachie}>

yeah freddie roach is a good example, I believe he had something like 20 professional fights, one of the best coaches.

Entireley possible for there to be great coaches without fight experience......however to compensate for the lack of fight experience, I feel they should have extensive training and sparring experience.

What your not going to find is a guy that is a great coach, that hasnt fought, hasnt sparred, and hasnt been training long.

theres a differences between knowing how to do something, being able to do something, being able to use that something, and being able to teach others how to do, and use, that something. Great coaches have all of these qualities combined.
 
That really doesn’t mean much.
Just because you’re a state or regional or national champion for point sparring doesn’t mean you actually know what’s up with real combat sports or self defense.
You should go back and read the original question, and then note what forum it's being posted in. Without defending point fighting (something I have joked about for decades), a point fighting coach needs to know point fighting not self defense or "real fighting". So to be legit, I'd expect he was an accomplished point fighter. The higher the level of his students, the more he needs to bring to the table in terms of technical ability, knowledge of fitness and nutrition, interpersonal and motivational skills, etc. And personally, I'd rather be a great point fighter than a clumsy douche taking Krav Maga or UFC classes. This coming from somebody who is no fan of point fighting.
 
yeah freddie roach is a good example, I believe he had something like 20 professional fights, one of the best coaches.

Entireley possible for there to be great coaches without fight experience......however to compensate for the lack of fight experience, I feel they should have extensive training and sparring experience.

What your not going to find is a guy that is a great coach, that hasnt fought, hasnt sparred, and hasnt been training long.

theres a differences between knowing how to do something, being able to do something, being able to use that something, and being able to teach others how to do, and use, that something. Great coaches have all of these qualities combined.
Well put. I feel more study of the art is a crux. I myself am happy working to the orange belt. It's far more involved, the first level of throws that one would think.

Neither of my Judo instructors are big into competition. The same with another Judo club nearby. That one they have more in class competitive randori. One Judo school I'm told is very competition heavy. But the word is they are all over the place in competence and only one member is doing well @ tournaments. That individual is doing very well, however.

The emphasis where I am is learning over competing. A reverse of the MMA culture.<This7><This7><This7><This7><This7><This7><This7><This7><This7><209Bitch>
 
You should go back and read the original question, and then note what forum it's being posted in. Without defending point fighting (something I have joked about for decades), a point fighting coach needs to know point fighting not self defense or "real fighting". So to be legit, I'd expect he was an accomplished point fighter. The higher the level of his students, the more he needs to bring to the table in terms of technical ability, knowledge of fitness and nutrition, interpersonal and motivational skills, etc. And personally, I'd rather be a great point fighter than a clumsy douche taking Krav Maga or UFC classes. This coming from somebody who is no fan of point fighting.
You're a rare bird for an MMA forum.<Arya01>

It's interesting when you bring up point fighting. Judo is randori, which certainty is full contact. Randori practice can range in intensity, but @ the practice level to informal competition, it's to be relaxed pace. I wonder why? It's becoming apparent to me the reason(s).
 
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