how much experience to be 'legit'

Sometimes tons of experience just means that the guy spent more time reinforcing wrong/stupid shit, so there's that.

Also lots of really bad trainers/teachers who happened to attract talent...

Guys with academic training that cant put to practice all the theory....

So many variables.
That’s the point of the discussion to maybe hash out a general framework of what makes a legit coach/fighters/commentator/etc
 
Just because you’re a state or regional or national champion for point sparring
By A+++ i meant world or Continental level.

If one wish to be point sparring champ at this level, he is looking for coach that had students with high results exactly in…..point sparring.
These coaches not rarerly are paid by sponsors, or student does have rich parents, uncle etc.
Ofc they look at students results.
 
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By A+++ i meant world or Continental level.

If one wish to be point sparring champ at this level, he is looking for coach that had students with high results exactly in…..point sparring.
These coaches not rarerly are paid by sponsors, or student does have rich parents, uncle etc.
Ofc they look at results.
oh so only people who have wins at the world or international level are legit?
frank dux claims over 300 wins in an international comptetition, does that make him legit?

you're either dense or you just don't really understand the actual question.

no one doubts a dude with a world title for point fighting (whatever that actually means) is likely quite skilled and knowledgable in point fighting, doesn't make them legit to commentate or coach on self defense or real combat sports.
 
so, was just thinking, how much experience and what quality of experience does the sherdog standup forum think is necessary to be considered legit for the purposes of teaching/training/coaching?

For example Ramsey’s Dewey has a pro record of 3-4 in MMA should people take him as seriously as they seem to, at least on YT?

What about an amateur with a record of 4-1 in a local promotion?



well my dude the level of opponents in the local shows is not the same but for example im 16 with a record of 9 and 0
ive been fighting around the wrld since i was 8 im a judo black belt sanda pro kickboxing pro (under 16)
and i still do not think i am legit
 
well my dude the level of opponents in the local shows is not the same but for example im 16 with a record of 9 and 0
ive been fighting around the wrld since i was 8 im a judo black belt sanda pro kickboxing pro (under 16)
and i still do not think i am legit
in my experience the most legit people are typically the most humble about their skills. same concept as a quote i cant quite remember but something like "those who speak the loudest, know the least."
 
That really doesn’t mean much.
Just because you’re a state or regional or national champion for point sparring doesn’t mean you actually know what’s up with real combat sports or self defense.
Isn't Raymond Daniels the world champion of point sparring? Regardless, he has a lot of experience in that and he can fight.
 
oh so only people who have wins at the world or international level are legit?
frank dux claims over 300 wins in an international comptetition, does that make him legit?
I suspect that you didn't get the true core of YOUR own question….

you're either dense or you just don't really understand the actual question.
I also suspect that I understand it surprisingly better than you think.
-----
At first, coach is evaluated by his students results….
So, if your students get A+++ level results, you are A+++ level coach………
Coach level is their student achievments ( including long term achievments ) level.
----
Claims and internet forums doesn't interest that much, because official results and athletes that achieved these results names are awailable in legitime official resources.
Later to dig out his coaches, including also previous coaches isn't undoable task. :)
------
Yes, usually for beginner even local coach with a good students results in local amateur tournaments is…. decently enough.
There just real life and mantra " ask a guy or guys " does work well. With a glance btw.:)
 
At least 10 fights of either imo. I used to think your record was everything, but I'm in the camp now its your total experience in the career. I've seen guys amass a 12 fight record in a short period of time (some of which are tournament wins which racks up alot if you do indeed win them all), and they're basically an inflated fighter on experience for their skillset, compared to someone who took it normal and took 3 fights a year (shows). A person who's 4-1, and goes pro the following week, is too inexp'd imo. There's so much they still don't know in terms of skill, and plus how the entire industry works, which itself is another entire beast.

There's two sides to coaching. You have the skillset part for the sport, and the knowledge of the game part. Both are needed imo, esp having gone through a coach that was inexperienced in the latter, it fell back on me bad. I've seen it happen to other friends in the community as well, and its not a pretty sight; Especially if your fighter is the one who has NOTHING: no education, no blue collar skill, shit job, possibly a record which makes stable work hard, just puts their hopes and dreams into the sport hoping for that lottery ticket, and using them as your lab rat to learn along the way so you won't make the same mistake 2-3 years later when a hot shot 18 year old shows up at your gym door, who you see as a golden goose. Yeah, don't do that. This type of coaching happens when people lack exp in both sides, and take up gym ownership too early.

Knowledge of the game part would be knowing the connections to get decent fights and even cross-training with sister gyms locally or overseas, able to make sure and to see setups for your fighters from a mile away, and the heart to not cripple your fighter's career by playing it too safe or greedy (have an ex-teammate who's going through that now, should've done pro YEARS ago, but he was told he was too in-exp'd for pro, and now he's 28 with a 2-1 record, while we know of 20 year old killers with even more exp. stepping up the ladder).

I've done some coaching on my end just due to circumstances (teammate's coach was fucking off, and my teammate being a good friend of mine we just trained, and it just ended up being a coaching student arrangement without me realizing it until the 3rd week in). Imo, I still have alot to learn so I wouldn't go around advertising myself as a coach or even open a gym. I have a friend who did that, but he basically opened a fitness gym that caters to business people, working moms who want to get fit again, etc. with the occasional fighter (seems to be 1 fighter per 3 years, and in novice events). Even then, I still wouldn't. I've always been the person that I feel I need experience and actual paperwork to feel legit. I can't in my goodwill open a gym which includes nutrition training where I have no official background in it. But that's just me, others don't appear to have that block and just open gyms for the sake of it.
 
Angelo Dundee had zero fights. I don't even think he ever trained boxing as a student. He was a corner man always.
 
Intelligent Quesiton Alert.
so, was just thinking, how much experience and what quality of experience does the sherdog standup forum think is necessary to be considered legit for the purposes of teaching/training/coaching?

For example Ramsey’s Dewey has a pro record of 3-4 in MMA should people take him as seriously as they seem to, at least on YT?

What about an amateur with a record of 4-1 in a local promotion?
What's the record of the people he trains? What is the percentage of his students who succeed in their respective competitions?<Prem974>
 
I've seen it happen to other friends in the community as well, and its not a pretty sight; Especially if your fighter is the one who has NOTHING: no education, no blue collar skill, shit job, possibly a record which makes stable work hard, just puts their hopes and dreams into the sport hoping for that lottery ticket, and using them as your lab rat to learn along the way so you won't make the same mistake 2-3 years later when a hot shot 18 year old shows up at your gym door, who you see as a golden goose. Yeah, don't do that. This type of coaching happens when people lack exp in both sides, and take up gym ownership too early.
Hahahhahahhaaahhhhhhaaaaaahhhhhahahhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa.....

You hit the nail on the MMA head.<Prem771>
 
Sometimes tons of experience just means that the guy spent more time reinforcing wrong/stupid shit, so there's that.
MMA pick a number. It'll come up a given 'winner.'<{danawhoah}>

Also lots of really bad trainers/teachers who happened to attract talent...
The Edwin Tarverdyan Syndrome. And he's not alone.{<RR}

Guys with academic training that cant put to practice all the theory....
ME. Boxing footwork is key, for example.<datassdom>

So many variables.
True. But don't post them until you have your TSF press card.<30>
 
This isn’t just about coaches but anyone who chooses to commentate in a public manner on self defense and/or combat sport
Whether here on Sherdog, on FB, YT, or as an author, etc.

i see, well I would say its a case by case basis than, and hard to tell without knowing the person. I have 2 friends that have trained for a very long time but never fought, I value their input, and they would help me prepare for all my fights. I also know people that have fought professionally, that have nowhere near the skill and knowledge of my 2 friends that never fought
 
difficult to say...........theres crap coaches with tons of experience and great coaches with little and even no experience..........and everything in between....you got guys that may have only trained for a few years and had a lot of fights in that time............and also guys with little or no fight experience that have been training for a very long time.......fight experience is important..........but so is experience, knowledge, and a understanding of the sport, its concepts, applications, and how to actually apply them........i dont think you have to fight to know what your talking about, but there are things that can only be learned by fighting, i feel it gives you a deeper undestanding.
I do believe that coaches should have some understanding of what getting hit feels like, otherwise it too easy to get "tough" coaches. Some guys with limited experience are far too ready to allow their fighters to take bad beatings to satisfy their own egos. That really pisses me off, first they allow a person to get in the ring with inferior skills, and then they allow the poor bloke to take a horrible beating, "because he wanted to fight, and he has to toughen up if he wants to be a fighter".
 
So called local low importance tournaments exactly is a place with highest rate in difference between athletes.

Imagine for example 19 years old guy with 1 year KB training. Not bad level training. 0 bouts.
Versus 19 years old guy that had done from 7 till 16 years of age TMA in non MC dojo even by harsh standarts. And competed too.
Then gap and later 1,5 year in ( mainly ) KB gym.
Sory, he cleaned out three local level tournaments with smooth ease, then get in better level tournament and then had 14-0-0.
He and this not notable gym get sponsor.
Not less valuable was that he was really nice guy too.
 
There's two sides to coaching. You have the skillset part for the sport, and the knowledge of the game part. Both are needed imo, esp having gone through a coach that was inexperienced in the latter, it fell back on me bad.

Knowledge of the game part would be knowing the connections to get decent fights
This is the most difficult part of the Game.
I can't in my goodwill open a gym which includes nutrition training where I have no official background in it. But that's just me, others don't appear to have that block and just open gyms for the sake of it.
I think you can find some nutritionist/ dietician that work for you few hours per month.
Nutritionist/ sport dietician to consult your clients. They not rarerly does additional side work, like few hours there, few hours there as additional income.
 
This is the most difficult part of the Game.
Possibly.
Depends on your reputation too, the combat sport community is actually really small; Despite MMA/MT/BJJ's popularity, they're niche sports at the end of the day

I think you can find some nutritionist/ dietician that work for you few hours per month.
Nutritionist/ sport dietician to consult your clients. They not rarerly does additional side work, like few hours there, few hours there as additional income.
Working with nutritionists is one part of it. A large problem in the fitness industry is con-jobs of online coaches. There's many factors of what affects a person's weight and physique; Sure, going with a ballpark idea of the basics can and usually work, but everyone is different, some people have conditions that will affect how things go, and when issues like that appear that are beyond my background, it makes me look like an idiot. There's also female fighters, how being on their period affects weight cutting.
 
I do believe that coaches should have some understanding of what getting hit feels like, otherwise it too easy to get "tough" coaches. Some guys with limited experience are far too ready to allow their fighters to take bad beatings to satisfy their own egos. That really pisses me off, first they allow a person to get in the ring with inferior skills, and then they allow the poor bloke to take a horrible beating, "because he wanted to fight, and he has to toughen up if he wants to be a fighter".

we call those guys....."brave corners"

I knew a coach that did just that, his fighter got beat badly, had 2 black eyes, swollen face, etc.......this same coach then made fun of the guy and his injuries.

A fighters performance is a direct reflection of his coach........this could be argued but generally speaking, good coaches have good fighters.

The debate of whether a coach shoudl have exp or not has been discuess on here as well.........while its possible to have good or even great coaches that never fought before, they are the exception to the rule, I feel coaches should have experience in whatever sport it is they are coaching.......that beign said, i have 2 friends that never fought, that are great coaches and pad holders and trust them, have had them in my corner, help prepare me for fights, etc.
 
we call those guys....."brave corners"

I knew a coach that did just that, his fighter got beat badly, had 2 black eyes, swollen face, etc.......this same coach then made fun of the guy and his injuries.

A fighters performance is a direct reflection of his coach........this could be argued but generally speaking, good coaches have good fighters.

The debate of whether a coach shoudl have exp or not has been discuess on here as well.........while its possible to have good or even great coaches that never fought before, they are the exception to the rule, I feel coaches should have experience in whatever sport it is they are coaching.......that beign said, i have 2 friends that never fought, that are great coaches and pad holders and trust them, have had them in my corner, help prepare me for fights, etc.
Nothing worse than a brave corner as you call it, accept maybe a sadistic ref.
 
Nothing worse than a brave corner as you call it, accept maybe a sadistic ref.

most refs have been very fair in my experience. in the US, i feel the IKF is doing a good job running, promoting, and growing muay thai.
 
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