how much experience to be 'legit'

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by JohnPJones, Jan 19, 2020.

  1. JohnPJones Green Belt

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    so, was just thinking, how much experience and what quality of experience does the sherdog standup forum think is necessary to be considered legit for the purposes of teaching/training/coaching?

    For example Ramsey’s Dewey has a pro record of 3-4 in MMA should people take him as seriously as they seem to, at least on YT?

    What about an amateur with a record of 4-1 in a local promotion?
     
  2. SandaKicker Green Belt

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    There’s coaching experience and then there’s pro fight experience.

    Many of the most famous coaches in MMA don’t have the best record/if any;

    Firas, Greg Jackson, Jon Kavannagh.

    It’s the same in other sports.

    I couldn’t imagine training for a fight with a guy with as many issues as Conor McGregor, even though he’s an elite fighter.

    So I don’t have a problem with people listening to a guy like Ramsey Dewey.
     
  3. biscuitsbrah Red Belt

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    I don’t think there is a standard but 10 amateur or pro sounds good to me
     
  4. JohnPJones Green Belt

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    Even if it’s 0-10 or 1-9?
     
  5. Hatake88 Blue Belt

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    Depends on who is being taught. For kids/beginner classes, an amateur with 1-3 fights is usually enough. For everyone in the 6 month to 2 year mark (so intermediates to near amateur level), probably a really experienced state ranked amateur or former pro fighter.

    We have exceptions like Firas of course but locally I don't know any successful teams where e.g. the fight team isn't coached by a former champion pro fighter/very experienced thai.
     
  6. Dexter Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

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    If we talk about coaching, the most famous Soviet boxing trainer, who brought up the “golden” team of the 1960-70s, which shone at all championships and Olympic games, was himself athlete of a very low level.
    At the same time, I personally think that a person who has never participated in competitions of his chosen sport at all is not able to educate athletes in sport of the highest achievements. He simply will not know the small nuances that distinguish competitive fighters from hobbyists. Of course, there are exceptions, but they only confirm the rule.
     
  7. Minowafanatic Black Belt

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    There are great coaches who were shit fighters and there are some great fighters who are shit coaches. That said if you had a coach with no competitive experience and they were also new to coaching, I wouldn't go with them because you at least need someone in your corner who understands the experience of fighting from firsthand experience.

    With records, you can't guess if someone was a poor fighter or not just based off those numbers, a lot of times anyway. There's so many poor decisions or fights which are made which aren't 50/50 matchups.

    I have had 9 fights and help coach at an amateur boxing club, for the last year. I am not the head coach and am still learning.
     
  8. AndyMaBobs Brown Belt

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    Y'know your basement? Well right underneath that.
    A coaches fighting record is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the success of their students.
     
  9. tekkenfan Banned Banned

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    john kav isnt a great mma coach dude i can tell you first hand lol hes a basic bjj black belt who happened to have a gym in ireland before bjj was even a thing and most f his fighters back then just knew more than others and he brought in some striking coaches john himself is not a mma coach on a top level
     
  10. SandaKicker Green Belt

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    I can believe that.

    With MMA being such a new sport it’s not hard to imagine the standard of coaching is not great in many places. I think the coaching in sports with an established Olympic program such as Gymnastics or swimming is vastly superior.

    I thought this was one of Dewey’s better video’s;



    A good coach is not so much about a clear knowledge of all techniques although that is a requirement. It’s about knowing how much an athlete should be training, when they should pick it up, when they need a confidence booster, what techniques are a game changer at the level they are at and a bunch of other factors.
     
  11. SandaKicker Green Belt

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    The other aspect to this is should Dewey be a big cheese on YouTube/semi-famous despite having a very average MMA record.

    Yes in my opinion because he’s never committed plagiarism, lied about his credentials, given people a false sense of confidence or put out dangerous techniques.

    There might be hundreds of guys out there at his level but youtube is a business in its own right and he’s not done anything unethical.

    It could be like a famous fighter complaining no one comes to his class but they go to the scrub down the road who has a 1-3 record then when you go to his class and you find he gets you skipping for the first half an hour whilst he chats up all the younger female students, banging pads for the second half an hour whilst he checks his phone. Whilst the other guy runs a well structured professional class. Would the guy with the better record really be in a position to complain?

    There are other youtubers putting out dangerous Mcdojo techniques that I do have a problem with.
     
  12. tekkenfan Banned Banned

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    mhm i went to rieland in early 2012 before conor took off and gym i coached at were rivals with sbg basically but yeah john is a basic black belt he just owns the gym and takes credit as conors head coach conor was doing boxing before he got into mma he already had a skill set before going to sbg but owen roddy got him to his current level eh claims john had no skills to teach conor outside of sub defense tbh as conor hates grappling
     
  13. ConorFacts Banned Banned

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    The Information age aka era of the internet ... give me 1 year and I could become a good coach.

    This is one of the reasons why MMA and the gaming scene had a huge advantage over other sports.
     
  14. It all depends if you do a good job
     
  15. shincheckin Black Belt

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    difficult to say...........theres crap coaches with tons of experience and great coaches with little and even no experience..........and everything in between....you got guys that may have only trained for a few years and had a lot of fights in that time............and also guys with little or no fight experience that have been training for a very long time.......fight experience is important..........but so is experience, knowledge, and a understanding of the sport, its concepts, applications, and how to actually apply them........i dont think you have to fight to know what your talking about, but there are things that can only be learned by fighting, i feel it gives you a deeper undestanding.
     
  16. JohnPJones Green Belt

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    This isn’t just about coaches but anyone who chooses to commentate in a public manner on self defense and/or combat sport
    Whether here on Sherdog, on FB, YT, or as an author, etc.
     
  17. JohnPJones Green Belt

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    What defines doing a good job?
    Frank Dux is objectively a successful martial artist, so is he doing a good job?
     
  18. SandisLL Brown Belt

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    Students results. ;)
    If your students get A+++ level achievments, you are this level coach. Maybe even in world's TOP10.:)
    Coach can work even after casual retirement age 60+. Some coaches/ advisors work even when are 70+.
     
  19. Lucas Coradini Blue Belt Professional Fighter

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    Sometimes tons of experience just means that the guy spent more time reinforcing wrong/stupid shit, so there's that.

    Also lots of really bad trainers/teachers who happened to attract talent...

    Guys with academic training that cant put to practice all the theory....

    So many variables.
     
  20. JohnPJones Green Belt

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    That really doesn’t mean much.
    Just because you’re a state or regional or national champion for point sparring doesn’t mean you actually know what’s up with real combat sports or self defense.
     

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