Those big, dumb punches the untrained seem to like throwing in a street fight. And also 'arm punches' as I'd call them, when someone uses pretty much just their arm and/or shoulder to throw a punch, without the sort of waist movement you would see in boxing. I would like to know approximately how much force a punch like this would generate compared to that of well-executed jabs, crosses & hooks. I was teaching a friend the other day about boxing and how to throw a punch correctly (he is completely inexperienced), and he asked why the movement of everything besides the arm was so important. I told him that when you throw a punch simply with your arm and shoulder, you are only hitting the target with the mass of your fist and your arm, which is hardly anything. I told him that even just twisting at the waist when you punch adds the mass of your upper body into it, which multiplies the force you will land on your target. I was curious after this and I like to get into the physics of these things. So if an average guy, maybe around 5'10" and 170lbs, were to throw one of those sloppy haymakers or 'arm punches', how much force do you think he could generate with this if it lands?