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How long until horse racing is banned?

Discussion in 'Mayberry Lounge' started by IloveTHIS, Jun 16, 2020.

  1. fingercuffs Rebelfetts future wife Platinum Member

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    I'm not watching the videos. I understand how big and powerful horses are, I've broken a dozen or so of them in.

    They do not need to be whipped and if you resort to that it's like smacking a child. You have no control whatsoever.

    Horse racing is barbaric.
     
  2. TheDisturbedOne White Belt

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    lmao you couldn't be anymore pretentious; you have no idea <45><Lmaoo>
     
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  3. TheDisturbedOne White Belt

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    euthanized? they shoot them, and they do the same to greyhounds except they give them steroids and cocaine
     
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  4. fingercuffs Rebelfetts future wife Platinum Member

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    When I was a kid at army stables after school every day, my pony was being put out to pasture. I was sad obviously being I was 7 or 8. One of the stable hands said he would be glue by next week. I wish I didn't know what that meant. Thankfully he got put out to pasture locally and I still got to see him. I was heartbroken when I knew the whole glue thing.
     
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  5. GeneTunney7 Purple Belt

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    Good, I am actually a professional natural horsemanship trainer. And when did you break and do you have a favorite clinician? I ask because even Monty Roberts and Chris Cox, the kings of natural horsemanship, appreciate racing and it's value. It's usually the ignorant PETA types, barn witches or teenage girls, that think racing is "barbaric"

    Horse racing is also very important for horses in the sense that Zoos are important for conservation.; it was racing that got me involved with horses and why I became a professional trainer. Every single sect of the horse world has accidents and deaths - I can show you jumping, draft pulls, reining, horses sitting in their pastures that all have the same or worse......they are essentially half ton rabbits. It is much more cruel to use a bit, bosal, or spurs incorrectly or stall a horse with no exercise than it is for a jockey to touch a horse with a stick 3 times. The whip is a tool for safety, and if you bothered watching just 10 seconds of the time stamped Haskell video you would see what happens when jockeys are not allowed the whip - the horse and rider nearly died. Any trainer worth their salt will tell you that horses operate on "ask-promise-deliver", and that means if a horse is not responding you then need to create contact, aka "deliver". If a jock "whips" a horse with no chance to win or is not responding to the whip, they get penalized.

    If you have been around horses, you know they kick and bite each other on a daily basis, generating far more force with their 1300 pound bodies than we do with out 150 pound bodies. Like all sports, racing has it bad eggs, but over all it is a net positive for horses and realistically there is simply no way it is going away (it's run by the richest and most powerful people on earth). I try advocating for realistic change for the safety of the horse, like stopping the practice of shoe'ing, no raised hay nets, more turn outs, transition to bitless, starting breaking process later after bones have a chance to mature, breeding restrictions, but banning the whip is not one of them.

    I dont even use bits on horses, am as pro natural horsemanship as one can get, but I also realize there is alot of fake news about racing, generalizations, cherry picked tragedies painted as the standard and it serves a very important part is establishing horse awareness.
     
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  6. abject Green Belt

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    There's no need for whips but i still say you can race horses. If the horse likes you he will run fast. Ban telling your dog to sit though. There's no need for that harassment.
     
  7. GeneTunney7 Purple Belt

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    No they dont, lol! They euthanize the horses that get hurt and can not be saved. Yes, people around the world do shoot horses - which is actually a fairly humane method when done correctly - but they have a vet euthanize them if they get hurt on the track and behind banner that protects the public from seeing. Just imagine if they were shooting them in front of families and little kids? The optics would be terrible.

    There is incredibly strict drug testing in racing now and they even do out of competition drug testing. It is so sensitive that horses are popping for picograms of nothing burgers. There was recently a case where a stable hand snorted coke in he bathroom, had residue on his fingers and then the horses popped for coke! The problem with racing now is that people se these failed tests (like Medina spirit's failed test for rash cream) and think they are all getting juiced up on Jon Jones t-bol.
     
  8. fingercuffs Rebelfetts future wife Platinum Member

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    I'm watching Food Network with my husband, if I tell him we have to halt everything because some bloke is begging me to watch something on Sherdog he won't be best pleased. It isn't not "bothered".

    Banning a whip, lol. I have used a crop, but only close behind the saddle, and never in a whipping fashion. The instructor who told me to do that, I never saw her again. You have lost the battle if you need to beat the shit out of a horse.

    I've been backed into a corner of a stable, been thrown off countless times but never resorted to beating an animal up.
     
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  9. GeneTunney7 Purple Belt

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    As probably the only pro horse trainer on all of Sherdog, I am telling you that you do need the whips. The following race has been run for 50 years and this past running was the first time in history that they ever were not allowed to use whips (time stamped for you, so you only have to watch like 10 seconds):




    The whip is much more important for steering than speed. You either show it to the horse and they veer away from the pressure, or you tap them on the front shoulder or rear hind and they will yield to the pressure. If people that know nothing about these incredibly complex and dangerous animals start calling the shots, you get exactly what happened in the Haskell.
     
  10. fingercuffs Rebelfetts future wife Platinum Member

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    So it doesn't hurt them at all?
     
  11. rj144 Gold Belt

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    Yeah, that's euthanized.
     
  12. 12ga. Gold Belt

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    poor horses. Gonna be eliminated....they used to be our tractors. our cars, even our tanks as we rode them into battle with swords.

    World had 10x more horses 300 years ago... I think they rather like being raced rather than stabbed in the chest by a spear like old days or gone. Keep racing.

    Their utility is almost zero unless you race or rodeo em.

    BTW we are next Robots will take our place.
     
  13. GeneTunney7 Purple Belt

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    Hey, dont respond to me if you dont want - I am just stating facts here w/ sources and if anyone wants to respond to me, have at it. Horses are my life, they are how I make a living, so forgive me for sharing my professional opinion here and correcting half truths and misinformation from people that are not in the horse game or fancy themselves experts because they went on a trail ride once. Dunning kruger runs rampant in the horse world, not just the racing world.

    No, you dont need to 'beat the shit out the horse'. As I already told you, there are rules in place that if you do that, you get fined or even banned. Just watch 10 seconds of the haskell stakes to see what I am talking about. No need for strawmen arguments, I was very clear and elaborate with my points, probably too much.

    If you fired a trainer because they told you to use your crop, you are entirely too triggerable to be working with horses in the first place.....you must have a melt down when they have a fight over food (which happens every day in a herd, as horses should live in to meet social and emotional needs). I work with alot of people like you and they usually call me after they got hurt from humanizing the horse, treating it like a child, but horses are very different from humans.

    There are many training tools and all can be used improperly, the crop, spurs, halter and saddle all some of them. Crying for racing to be banned is not going to happen, calling it "barbaric" is counterproductive, and the best any horse lover can do is look to implement practical change that will help the horses. The problem is not racing, the REAL problem in the horse world is people humanizing horses: they are not human, they can be incredibly dangerous animals, and it is unfair to them and us to act as if they are human and process the world as humans do. I'd gladly give you a list of 50 things I think should be changed about racing but you wont want to hear it <Lmaoo><45>

    And say they ban racing: are you going to take in the millions of thoroughbreds that will need homes after racing goes out of business? You realize what will happen right? There will be alot of dog food on the shelves.
     
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  14. fingercuffs Rebelfetts future wife Platinum Member

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    Ok I read up to "firing your trainer". I was 9 at most.

    Any whipping of a horse is cruel and anyone doing it needs locking up. It's barbaric.
     
  15. GeneTunney7 Purple Belt

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    Can you name one sport absent of any level of discomfort or pain? Horses hurt each other far more than a jockey's "whip" ever could just figuring out the daily pecking order. Ever been kicked by a horse? I have - it is way more powerful than anything that we could do and they kick and bite each other every day.

    No horse has ever been killed or suffered anything more than superficial bruises/cuts from being whipped in a horse race. The real pain to horses is sugary grain like many owners give that causes digestion problems and colic, improperly fitting saddles, stalling them all day, shoeing which destroys structural integrity/hoof growth/blood flow, keeping them separated from a herd, not getting them exercise or giving them purpose and leadership.

    In an ideal world horses would not start the breaking process until 4/5 when they were physically and mentally mature. They would under go immense foundation training so they could be ridden with no bits and would be 'push-button', like a 4th lev dressage horses or finished reined cow horse. But seeing as we live in reality and these horses are often two-three years old, running 40 mph, you need training aides at times to correct them.

    It really does not seem like you know the modern rules, have ever been to a racing program or even felt a racing crop. I get it, ppl watch them being "whipped" on TV and get triggered, but the alternative is far worse, they dont understand the ways horses are different than humans and they dont realize the level of care these horses get.
     
  16. fingercuffs Rebelfetts future wife Platinum Member

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    Ever been ridden and whipped for sport?
     
  17. TheDisturbedOne White Belt

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    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/n...-footage-shows-former-race-horses-killed.html

    I guess Kurt Cobian died 'humanely' by your standards then

    that would entail a death that doesn't exacerbate their pain; I'm not sure you know what that word even means.
     
  18. TheDisturbedOne White Belt

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    https://www.thedodo.com/traditional-horse-fighting-in--415238068.html

    The Chinese apparently have a hard-on for horse fights
     
  19. fingercuffs Rebelfetts future wife Platinum Member

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    And fuck off "level of care". You don't race them over fences with potential death like The Grand National if you "care" about them.

    Absolute bollocks. You as a supposed stable hand have convinced yourself that horses die in that race pretty much every year as "oh well". Or is that not a thing? That's never happened?
     
  20. StonedLemur Lost soul Double Yellow Card

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    Ostriches are raced, Camels are raced, Oxen, you name it...some asshole has raced it sir.
     
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