How is Mike Tyson not considered top 5 Heavyweight of all time?

Woldog said:
Plenty of evidence to support it. Wasting my time proving it to you? No thanks. I’m not one for giving my name out on public forum.

So I’ll have to take your word and you’ll have to take mine babe xox
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So no evidence, just pure speculation based on your opinion!
 
Heelhook71 said:
I’m not going to get into who’s performed higher,because everyone is a super star on the internet.. However your apparent knowledge would suggest that you weren’t a either a top level athlete or ever trained or trained with any. If you were you were a pretty dirty one and it’s easier on your conscious to think that everyone else was/is dirty to.

That’s not my experience.
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High level, I wouldn’t say top, never used steroids, was only 22 when my injury happened so I never got to the stage where I felt I would need them.
Would I have used them? Depends on if I felt they would further/prolong my career, I’ve never been a win at all costs type and I was never fully committed to being the best nor did I want to be.
I enjoyed being good enough but didn’t and still don’t have the dedication or drive to make it to an elite/Olympic level in any sport.
My “apparent” knowledge suggests that does it? What’s your knowledge, how many boxers, mma fighters and other athletes have failed drug tests this year? How many fighters go to Thailand to train in their downtime? (I’ll give you a hint, steroids are legal to buy without a prescription in Thailand). This year alone in Australia 30+ rugby players failed drug tests, there are 5 professional teams in Australia in Rugby union and a full squad consists of 32 players who are eligible to play on match day with random testing only occurring 3 - 5 times a season and usually only 5 players will be tested each time. You do the maths.

You guys seem to believe that because you knew fighters or athletes and they weren’t using them the majority must be clean. My question is how do you know they weren’t using? Would they tell you if they were? Usually the only people who know are the athlete and their performance manager. The less who know the better, not like they broadcast it for the world to know.

If you guys want to think the world is all sunshine, lollipops and clean eating then by all means don’t let me ruin your naive dream. But in the real world where profits can be made cheating will happen.

If you want to get all bent out of shape by a faceless user on an Internet forums opinion be my guest. But my experience in the higher levels of sports in Australia suggest to me that cheating is near universal. Maybe it’s different in other countries but I doubt it.

Peace.
 
Tyson is barely top 15, not even top 10. Talent wise sure he is up there but his results didn't back him up. You can't be top 5 when you were the 3rd best HW of your own era behind Lewis and Holyfield.
 
He left too many unanswered questions in his prime to be considered a top 5 HW imo. Performance-wise he looked incredible and I think a prime Tyson would give any HW a long night, but his prime was too short and his resume, while it is good, does not compare to many of the other HW legends we have seen.
 
Woldog said:
High level, I wouldn’t say top, never used steroids, was only 22 when my injury happened so I never got to the stage where I felt I would need them.
Would I have used them? Depends on if I felt they would further/prolong my career, I’ve never been a win at all costs type and I was never fully committed to being the best nor did I want to be.
I enjoyed being good enough but didn’t and still don’t have the dedication or drive to make it to an elite/Olympic level in any sport.
My “apparent” knowledge suggests that does it? What’s your knowledge, how many boxers, mma fighters and other athletes have failed drug tests this year? How many fighters go to Thailand to train in their downtime? (I’ll give you a hint, steroids are legal to buy without a prescription in Thailand). This year alone in Australia 30+ rugby players failed drug tests, there are 5 professional teams in Australia in Rugby union and a full squad consists of 32 players who are eligible to play on match day with random testing only occurring 3 - 5 times a season and usually only 5 players will be tested each time. You do the maths.

You guys seem to believe that because you knew fighters or athletes and they weren’t using them the majority must be clean. My question is how do you know they weren’t using? Would they tell you if they were? Usually the only people who know are the athlete and their performance manager. The less who know the better, not like they broadcast it for the world to know.

If you guys want to think the world is all sunshine, lollipops and clean eating then by all means don’t let me ruin your naive dream. But in the real world where profits can be made cheating will happen.

If you want to get all bent out of shape by a faceless user on an Internet forums opinion be my guest. But my experience in the higher levels of sports in Australia suggest to me that cheating is near universal. Maybe it’s different in other countries but I doubt it.

Peace.
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Who’s bent out of shape? I just know the fight game, particularly boxing better than you and know that’s bullshit. There a lot that cheat but the majority don’t. There are some elite fighters that are the cleanest living people I’ve ever seen.

No one thinks the worlds full of sunshine and lollipops. But some of us know some sports better than others. I wouldn’t debate you on union or AFL but I know when it comes to this sport that I know more than enough to see how laughable your statement is. It’s just a sweeping generalisation across all sports
 
I was a big supporter of Lewis but even he admitted he was not a master boxer. He had the height, reach and power and a good boxer but he is overrated. Heavyweight boxing is different than a lot of other weight classes because there is no upper limit.
 
Tyson could have KO’d Lewis before he hooked up with Emanuel Steward.
 
Tyson was the youngest champion at the class in history. He also became an icon through video games and broadway shows....Surely he deserves a placement here besides being undefeated in his peak years?
 
CodeBreaker said:
How is Mike Tyson not considered top 5 Heavyweight of all time, when in his prime, that version of Mike Tyson in 1986-89 would have beaten any of the past and present heavyweights in the world.

Prime Mike had everything, hand speed, head movement, foot work, and could knock you out with either hand.
Discuss.
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because he had the same luck as the Klitschko brothers he was just in the wrong era when he was in his prime.
 
Heelhook71 said:
Who’s bent out of shape? I just know the fight game, particularly boxing better than you and know that’s bullshit. There a lot that cheat but the majority don’t. There are some elite fighters that are the cleanest living people I’ve ever seen.

No one thinks the worlds full of sunshine and lollipops. But some of us know some sports better than others. I wouldn’t debate you on union or AFL but I know when it comes to this sport that I know more than enough to see how laughable your statement is. It’s just a sweeping generalisation across all sports
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You know the fight game better than me? I've been boxing since I was 12 years old, I'm 27 now, my father was a professional fighter and I've been around the fight game my entire life. You seem to believe that steroids are the only way to cheat, but I'm not saying every one is on steroids. I'm saying everyone cheats. You think during a fighters down time they don't cycle or use other banned substances? I suggest you watch the documentary Bigger Faster Stronger.
I'm not going to say you don't know the fight game because I don't know you, I don't know your fight record and I don't know your history, but you just need to look at the amount of fighters who get off on "Inadvertent use" and you have your answer, or do you believe Canelo really just ate Mexican meat? I'm sure Morales did the same thing. I'm sure Mosley accidentally used steroids like he said. Alex Ariza was just putting creatine in Manny's drinks. Berto accidentally took banned substances. Seriously nearly every elite boxer has at some point in his career failed drug tests, some get off on the inadvertent use clause (Surprise Surprise that's what Carl Lewis the runner got off because they brought in the rule for him).
If you want to discuss it more feel free to shoot me a message and I'll be happy to talk it through with you in a respectful manner without us measuring our e-peen
 
Deaths Head said:
Tyson was the youngest champion at the class in history. He also became an icon through video games and broadway shows....Surely he deserves a placement here besides being undefeated in his peak years?
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He also is a convicted rapist
 
People tend to only rate guys on their overall resume when it's all said and done.

I go off that, but also factory heavily a fighter peak. Some guys have reall short, but absolutely astounding peaks. They burn the candle at both ends.

A supernova may not last as long as some stars, but it's the brightest and most destructive force in the sky....
 
Buster Douglas spanked him before prison.

Ranking him on talent is interesting but it’s hard not to think his height and reach would have been a factor prime for prime against other HW greats.

Prime Foreman would be the worst match up for him imo, I think the jab would be a factor and he could catch him with a bolo punch bobbing and weaving.
 
Deaths Head said:
Tyson was the youngest champion at the class in history. He also became an icon through video games and broadway shows....Surely he deserves a placement here besides being undefeated in his peak years?
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How was he undefeated in his peak years?

I can see why someone would say he was never that good again after a lay-off in jail for three years with less than top notch training.

But he lost to Buster Douglas when he was young pre jail. If he fired his trainer that’s his problem.
 
Lack of longevity. Had the talent to be ranked among the greats.

I never understand the myth, 'he never beat anybody'.

Spinks
Old Holmes (Still a class fighter as he proved after Tyson)
Bruno x2
Tubbs
Tony Tucker
Razor Ruddock x2
Pinklon Thomas
Berbick
Golota

The above are not all time great names, but if many of them were around now, they could probably dominate most heavies.

Tyson isn't the greatest like many fanboy's claim. However, he is a lot better than many historians say.

I would rank him in around the top 10 overrall, but at his peak he's a top 5 fighter for sure.
 
MrFeeny said:
His only good wins are a 38 year old larry holmes coming off a 2 year layoff and a spinks- a guy that fought primarily at LHW. Everyone else of note he fought he got destroyed. That's why.
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Neither Holmes nor Spinks put any kind of pressure on Tyson at any time. They were both over the hill and looking for a payday.
 
DanMMAleague said:
Buster Douglas spanked him before prison.

Ranking him on talent is interesting but it’s hard not to think his height and reach would have been a factor prime for prime against other HW greats.

Prime Foreman would be the worst match up for him imo, I think the jab would be a factor and he could catch him with a bolo punch bobbing and weaving.
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Comeback Foreman would have beat Mike too. Mike ducked that fight.
 
CodeBreaker said:
How is Mike Tyson not considered top 5 Heavyweight of all time, when in his prime, that version of Mike Tyson in 1986-89 would have beaten any of the past and present heavyweights in the world.

Prime Mike had everything, hand speed, head movement, foot work, and could knock you out with either hand.
Discuss.
Click to expand...

Mike is scary and dangerous but he fought bums his down fall.
 
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