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How good were the other boxers from the time of Ali, Frazier and Foreman?

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by prikoke, Aug 2, 2010.

  1. prikoke

    prikoke Brown Belt

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    I remember people saying that top ten fighters from that era could become champions in earlier or later times. So how good do you think were they? How would Norton, Quarry, Shavers, Chuvalo, Lyle, Liston etc. do against say recent or present day heavyweights?

    I guess that a pretty long list to analyze in detail, feel free to focus on one or two boxers if you like.

    Thanks
     
  2. prod2821

    prod2821 Gold Belt

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    The guys from that era could take tons of punishment and deliver a lot of punishment as well. I think the Klitschko's give everyone problems due to their physical attributes, but guys like Ali, Holmes, and Foreman could/would beat them. Smaller HW's such as Patterson and Frazier had very good power for their size. It's all subjective but the 60's and 70's had tons of tough HW's that won the respect of everyone. Can't say the same of today's HW's. Probably cause most elite ones aren't American
     
  3. Nal**

    Nal** Banned Banned

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    prod pretty much said it. They could take tons of punishment and deliver a lot of punishment as well. The fights were very heated and not so one-sided like they are today.

    I think Wlad could beat a lot of them, but could he beat one after another like he does today? Probably not.
    I imagine he'd get tired after a couple of fights and his record would certainly not be 57-3.
     
  4. actjac

    actjac Down goes Frazuh...down goes Frazuh

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    Mid- 60's through early 80's

    Muhammad Ali
    George Foreman
    Joe Frazier
    Larry Holmes
    Sonny Liston
    Ken Norton
    Earnie Shavers
    George Chuvalo
    Jerry Quarry
    Oscar Bonevena
    Jimmy Young

    even add Floyd Patterson and Jimmy Ellis

    The best era of heavyweight boxing ever

    'nuf said
     
  5. Albert Einstein**

    Albert Einstein** Blue Belt

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    hard to say

    you have to consider that many things have changed.

    better nutritions and training methods. For example compare the body of boxers now and then and you will notice that boxers nowadays are way stronger built.

    but I think when you would transfer fighters like Ali or Foreman in our time they would adapt and still be champions.
     
  6. Kid McCoy

    Kid McCoy Black Belt

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    Some will tell you that the Ali days were The Old Days and therefore apt to be romanticized; exaggerated and seen as better than they actually were because they bring the speaker back to his younger, more vigorous days.

    But you can
     
  7. Iosephus

    Iosephus sleazy male stripper

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    a lot of them could've been cruisers in today's time, and probably a few of them goats.

    a guy like lyle is too big for cruiser, but a quarry would easily make it. people say his advantage was being a small hw, but fuck no, he was just good. he'd be a perfect cruiser
     
  8. Nal**

    Nal** Banned Banned

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    Lol, send this comment to Dana White's twitter :icon_chee

    Aside from that, you didn't mention the era between - Tyson, Holyfield, Ruddock, Bowe, Lewis, Tua.

    So it's possible to have a good heavyweight division even today, but I blame the people who run boxing. It's about money, not the sport at all. In the 60/70ies there wasn't that much money involved (I think 5 million for both Ali and Foreman in their fight was the biggest payday then).

    And of course, in the 90ies, the lighter divisons were as good as in any other era. Maybe no middleweights like Leonard, Hagler, Heanrs. But De la Hoya, Mosley, Whitaker, Morales, Barrera, etc ...
     
  9. rsreed13

    rsreed13 Yellow Belt

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    This. And the ratings you gave are damn good, Kid McCoy.
     
  10. big ugly bear

    big ugly bear Blue Belt

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  11. Sharkey

    Sharkey Who finishes 3rd?

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    Why is a period of apx 15 years being compared to one single year, Kid?

    Not exactly fair, is it?

    Unless you're trying to hide the fact that the Wepners, Urtains, Romans, Blins, etc. of the world were all rated as top 10 contenders when Ali, Frazier and Foreman were all still around and sitting atop the division.
     
  12. mozfonky

    mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    Ali era heavyweights were the densest of any era, that's the consensus. People were still tough as hell but the skills were there too. You take the main names out of the era and have the rest fighting today and I think they'd make everyone look like fools, that's how deep the talent was. Ali said quite aptly once in his bio about the older crop in his first era "on a good night any one of them could beat me". Well rounded fighters, many with horrible breaks in the sport and having the misfortune to come around at a time when Patterson was avoiding worthy contenders, or a tank like Liston or a superstar like Ali who was at his absolute peak and would never be better. That's the 60's talent that Ali, Frazier, Quarry had to beat into retirement after they were already shells of themselves. Then the 70's, my theory has always been, that when we have a trailblazer or real shaker upper, everyone gets better, they did in the 90's after Tyson shook the division and they did after Ali's first reign. Having a great fighter inspires the legions and they all say "I want that". You had Norton, Shavers, Lyle, Forman, Jimmy Young, Joe Bugner, Al Blue Lewis on and on. All good fighters that Ali, Frazier and Foreman had to show up ready for. You don't have that today. I believe Chuvalo when he says "Frazier would run through the Klitchkos like a paper bag".
     
  13. Boxer Rebellion

    Boxer Rebellion Blue Belt

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    Kid, your views on MMA are highly colored by your boxing bias, but I do appreciate the boxing knowledge.

    I just am a little sad at the thought of this knowledge floating around in cyber-limbo.

    You MUST save your posts, paste them all in MS Word or something, so that someday you can enlighten the wider world.
     
  14. Mr.pain

    Mr.pain Brown Belt

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    This explains it. :icon_twis:icon_twis

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I keep telling Kid he should write a book, how about "the complete history of combat sports"? Or "Why modern heavyweights couldn't carry Jerry Quarry's jock strap" :icon_chee
     
  15. Hanz_Blitz

    Hanz_Blitz BJJ all day

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    Crazy to think Ali beat all of them except for Holmes, the guy truly was a stud
     
  16. troublestarts

    troublestarts Green Belt

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    If you compare the heavyweights from the last 15 years with those of that 15 year period, suddenly the disparity in talent is not so pronounced. Sure, the old guys are still better, but when you add to the modern mix the likes of Holyfield, Lewis, Moorer, Bowe, post-prison Tyson, Ruddick, fat James Toney, etc. the comparison is a little more fair.

    Kid, with the amount of time you spend crafting your boxing forum posts and trolling the Heavies, I'm willing to bet my bank account that you've revisited this thread to see what the reaction to your post was. Let's hear your thoughts, stop hiding.
     
  17. prikoke

    prikoke Brown Belt

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  18. mozfonky

    mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    the Ali of the 60's was phenomenal, not only could he move continuously but he could fight nonstop for 15 round like a welterweight. You add on to that the fact that he was the greatest defensive heavyweight ever and you have a candidate for not only greatest heavyweight but greatest P4p of all time. He had underrated power, he had the fire (rightly or wrongly) of his religious convictions, he trained as hard as a champion should. The 70's version was a sloppy version of the sixties, one with dulled reflexes, heavier legs and less passion or work ethic. He could still win some big fights but compared to the sixties version he wasn't nearly the same.
     
  19. mozfonky

    mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    And as far as todays crop you can take even second tier talent of the 70's and 80's (like Bugner,Lyle,Pinklon Thomas,Michael Dokes) on a good night could beat anyone around today in my opinion.
     
  20. Dr Fong

    Dr Fong Blue Belt

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    As usual, somebody takes this argument too far.

    Joe Bugner, Ron Lyle, Pinklon Thomas and Michael Dokes take out the brothers?

    No chance.
     

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