How good was prime Askren?

[Kingofthestreets]

He got smashed by Robbie Lawler, managed to get it out, took Robbie into deep waters and. Chocked him limp within a round. This was a and old askren way past his prime. Probably was the best in the world at some point but we will never know.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

Early on, in the Hieron fight

 

[MartinGibson86]

The Mas knee wasn't a fluke at all. Go rewatch it, it doesn't take long. Look how confident Mas is. He's planned out this attack because he sees how predictable Askren is, he's pretty damned sure it will work even though its normally low percentage, and he executes perfectly. When you are as one dimensional as Askren was, people will exploit that.

it was a fluke


flying knees land about 1% of the time


yea yea yea hr dtepped to his right first

 

[TitoSchaubHighIQ]

Some of his old fights are on youtube so you can see by yourself and draw your own conclusions...

I believe he was one of the biggest overachievers in MMA (and wrestling also). He was born without any physical gifts and always lacked athleticism but somehow managed to win many times with his unortodox style.

The competition in the top tier of MMA was too much for him. Age was a factor but even if he was signed some years before by the UFC he was always destined to fail in the big league because he never really had any "fighting attributes".

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

it was a fluke


flying knees land about 1% of the time


yea yea yea hr dtepped to his right first

But against guy who only knows how to react to pressure by dropping for a takedown, the percentage goes way up. Flying knees don't work on most MMA fighters often, because the technique forces a striker to commit to a relatively slow developing attack. It's relatively easy to see coming, to move, to counter, etc. But not for Ben Askren. He's predictable, and Jorge predicted exactly how he would react.

 

[Sweater of AV]

He was the GOAT when he was undefeated and was always overrated when he finally lost. It's the way.

 

[MartinGibson86]

But against guy who only knows how to react to pressure by dropping for a takedown, the percentage goes way up. Flying knees don't work on most MMA fighters often, because the technique forces a striker to commit to a relatively slow developing attack. It's relatively easy to see coming, to move, to counter, etc. But not for Ben Askren. He's predictable, and Jorge predicted exactly how he would react.

It wasn't a reaction to pressure lol.


It was the start of the fight.


Props to Mas

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

It wasn't a reaction to pressure lol.


It was the start of the fight.


Props to Mas

At the start of the fight Mas ran at him, which is usually reckless and often can lead to your opponent exploiting your aggression. But this is the key, Mas correctly guessed exactly how Askren would respond to the situation and was able to take advantage. Mas' knee wouldn't have worked against a less one-dimensional fighter, and he would not have even attempted it.

Therefore calling it a fluke misses the whole point of the exchange, and misses why being one-dimensional allowed other, more well-rounded fighters to successfully use otherwise low percentage attacks on Ben.

 

[MartinGibson86]

At the start of the fight Mas ran at him, which is usually reckless and often can lead to your opponent exploiting your aggression. But this is the key, Mas correctly guessed exactly how Askren would respond to the situation and was able to take advantage. Mas' knee wouldn't have worked against a less one-dimensional fighter, and he would not have even attempted it.

Therefore calling it a fluke misses the whole point of the exchange, and misses why being one-dimensional allowed other, more well-rounded fighters to successfully use otherwise low percentage attacks on Ben.

Askren did literally the exact same thing against Lawler...and all his other fights.


It wasnt a reaction to Mas running at him lol.


Koreshkov and Lima both tried kneeing him as he shot.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Prime Askren went to a split decision with Jay Hieron

About all you need to know

Jay Hieron was a fringe top 10 guy back then and Askren was early in his career, context matters.

 

[Mob69]

Somewhat overrated. Many on here ranked him fringe top five while in Bellator. That was almost certainly an exaggeration. Top ten, perhaps. Bellator has some very good WW fighters, but Lima and company were arguably overrated too. I can recall discussions three years ago about whether Lima - at that point at his peak - was the best WW on the planet. LOL.

In short, Askren was a very good fighter in a stacked weight class, but not at the apex of it.

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

Really good but came to the UFC too late. Needed to sign with them instead of ONE in 2014. They just had zero for him to accomplish and it was a waste of his career. Hendricks was the perfect foil for him, so I don't see him getting the belt, but an elite UFC contender in his prime IMO.

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

Prime Askren went to a split decision with Jay Hieron

About all you need to know

Hieron won that fight. Also probably a bit underappreciated and was quite good in his prime. A tough match up for Ben too for what that's worth.

 

[Cantalope]

Ben cared more about money. He coasted off his wrestling and once he got older and injured he called it a day. I still think he took a dive against Paul. Not saying he would have won if he seriously trained but he was just there for the check.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

it's hard to consider a guy that one-dimensional a "good" mma fighter. maybe back in 1996, but not today.

I wouldn't call him one dimensional, he had great takedowns and a great ground game that's 2 dimensional like Jake Shields. I notice no one calls strikers with good TDD and weak ground games one dimensional but the grappling equivalent gets called one dimensional all the time for some reason.

 

[MartinGibson86]

Hieron won that fight. Also probably a bit underappreciated and was quite good in his prime. A tough match up for Ben too for what that's worth.

No way Heiron won any of the middle 3 rounds.


Clear 3-2 for Askren.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

If I remember correctly, Jason was very close with a choke, at the end of a round. Will have to re-watch that one.

Jason was close with a choke at the end of one of the rounds but otherwise got out grappled by Shields the rest of the fight.

 

[SokoudjouFanboy]

No way Heiron won any of the middle 3 rounds.


Clear 3-2 for Askren.

It's been so long since I watched it but I want to say I thought he won 3 or 4. 1 was clear Hieron, 2 clear Askren. I'm not going to die on a hill about it because it's been years since I saw it but I know I scored it 3-2 Hieron.

 

[MartinGibson86]

It's been so long since I watched it but I want to say I thought he won 3 or 4. 1 was clear Hieron, 2 clear Askren. I'm not going to die on a hill about it because it's been years since I saw it but I know I scored it 3-2 Hieron.

Hieron was a good fighter. He was on like a 10 fight win streak when he fought Ben

 

[Jorge Luis Borges]

Askren did literally the exact same thing against Lawler...and all his other fights.


It wasnt a reaction to Mas running at him lol.


Koreshkov and Lima both tried kneeing him as he shot.

1. Exactly. Askren always did the same thing. That made him predictable, and it made an otherwise low percentage technique a good strategy against him. The knee wasn't a fluke against Askren, because as you said "Askren did literally the exact same thing".
2. You are getting confused by semantics are are thus making an argument that is clearly false. When Mas ran at Askren, Ben changed levels as if to go for a takedown. This was obviously a reaction to mas' aggression.