How good is/was Brock Lesnar?

[Noko]

Not a fan but cant deny that he did pretty well coming from a fake sport to becoming champ in what 5 fights?! Thats fucking amazing to cross over like that. Dudes a beast. juiced to the gills but still could take a beating.

But he won the belt by k.o'ing a senior citizen

 

[Mortal Wombat]

But he won the belt by k.o'ing a senior citizen

Who was the champ. Did he decide who would be champion in a sport he wasn't in yet?! Wow ok guess he is great then.

 

[Squintz]

Man you must not have watched UFC when Shane Carwin was on a tear.

I loved Carwin.. he was my fav HW but his streak was overrated. He beat 2 nobodies, ManBearPig and Frank Mir.

When he finally faced a legit HW that could throw hands ....he looked completely lost ...got destroyed and never fought again. Much like when Brock finally faced Cain except this was a slow painful death.

 

[genecop]

Not very, big a strong carried him as far as it did..

 

[Reality]

There is some serious revisionist history going on right now. Also alot of you have no idea what diverticulitis is and are greatly exaggerating how big of an effect it had on his ability to fight.

When someone has to have surgery for anything, much less Diverticulitis its serious. Note what was happening when he fought Carwin:
"Lesnar underwent surgery for his condition. The surgeon had saidthat fecal matter was leaking into the abdominal cavity of Lesnar. This leakage was causing abscesses to develop, and it also forced Lesnar's immune system to work overtime. The anti-bodies of Lesnar's immune system were attacking the fecal matter as if it were a virus. The anti-bodies were not able to remove the fecal matter, and continued to attack it. Lesnar had become very susceptible to other illnesses and infection because his immune system was focused exclusively on his abdominal cavity. Surgeons went in, and closed up the perforations in his intestine that were leaking the fecal matter. This would not be the last surgery Lesnar would need for this condition".

Yes, poo leaking into the abdominal cavity and the bodies immune system attacking itself should have no affect on a fighter's ability to fight.

Between the Cain and overeem fights he hd to have a foot of his colon removed, once again according to your logic, it should have had no effect on his performance. Overeem punched him right where he had the surgery. This is what could have happened at any point in his career:

"Surgeons have said that the damage Lesnar had from the illness showed that he went undiagnosed with it for a year, and he had many fights in the octagon while he was undiagnosed with diverticulitis. At any time, a punch to his abdomen could have led to a rupture of one of the diverticula. The toxins released from a rupture like this could lead to a condition known as peritonitis. Peritonitis is when the tissue covering the organs of the abdomen become inflamed. Left untreated, peritonitis is almost always fatal".

Brock retired from MMA because of his illness, nobody knowing his full potential. But then again am exaggerating right ?

 

[SolidxSnake]

Carwin should have beaten Brock, but he went total ham in that first round trying to get the finish. After that second knockdown he should have let Brock back up, and cleaned his clock rather than punching his arms while Brock was covering up.

 

[iWas]

Lol...who hasn't kicked his ass at this point? Dude sucks.

Yeah Prime Cain and Übereem is nobodys.

And coming back from a full onslaught by Carwin to choke him out is something done by almost every heavyweight?

Am I doing this right?

 

[Blackjack]

He had a short but dominant run. He was huge, freakish quickness and agility for his size, tons of power and a strong amateur wrestling background. His biggest problems are that he got a late start and his health issues. Diverticulitis did more damage to him than anyone. He clearly just didn't move the same way after he came back and was obviously vulnerable to body shots.

I don't know if he would have beaten Cain had he stayed healthy but I believe we fans got robbed of what should have been a much better fight. I don't think there is a chance in hell that Healthy Brock loses to Overeem though.

I don't think his late start hurt him nearly as much as diverticulitis did. That just decimated his fighting ability. Before he got diverticulitis he had the potential to become the best ever. Randy Couture was a great fighter. he wanted to test himself by fighting Lesnar. So Couture gave him a title shot and with just 4 fights worth of experience, Lesnar beat Couture.

Who else has could have done that in that way? Who else has been good enough after four fights to defeat the Heavyweight Champion and then tie the record for most consecutive successful title defenses? Almost every fighter needs at least ten fights before he starts fighting top level opponents. Lesnar is such a high caliber athlete that as soon as he entered The UFC, he asked to face their top fighters. He wanted to be thrown to the wolves with no experience and not only did he immediately start facing their best fighters but he was successful with that approach. Who else has ever done that?

 

[Nueman43]

I think for this discussion you have to make distinctions.

Brock was not technical in the standup.
His wrestling was not technical either.
He was incredibly strong.
He was incredibly fast for his size.
He was aggressive and learned fast.

And then he was gone.

Accomplishments: Finished Randy, First to Finish Carwin, Beat Mir on the ground, Had the Title, Was a draw.
Negatives: Was likely on steroids the whole time, Thought he could learn standup without real sparring, Was always more interested in money than legacy.

Is he one of the greatest? No,
He is a champion who defended his belt. So the lowest you can go is mid tier. Couture, Mir, Carwin were his best wins.

 

[glenwo2]

The better question is how good would he have been if he went straight to MMA after college?

He would've been a monster.

But he wouldn't be as famous as he is now if he never went to the Fake Wrestling world.

 

[Tsar]

How exactly has MMA and especially the HW division dramatically "advanced" since he beat top 10 Mark Hunt a couple years ago?

I really don't get this myth that MMA has advanced so dramatically in the last few years that guys from the last generation simply couldn't compete today, despite the fact the current HW champ is about to turn 40 and the champs prior to him weren't a whole lot younger.

Big a big fast explosive wrestler is no longer a viable skill set in this modern "evolved" HW division? Lol.

The only real evaluation in recent years is more fighters having well rounded games and the average size of guys in each weightclass being about 10 pounds more than it was as they get better at cutting weight.

The sport and the skillsets that were effective 10 years ago are still the same now as they were then.

good point, HW in particular shows less advancement than other weight classes. but the point is that lesnar has not been improving his mma game since he's been doing other things and now he's in his 40s. how good is he today? i doubt he beats many top ten guys. beating mark hunt doesn't impress me at all, btw. and by now lesnar hasn't won an mma fight in eight years.

 

[Nueman43]

without the wwe fan base and all he no better than derrick lewis is now.

brock is overated and his record shows that.

with brock if u could withstand the power rush from him than you can grind him out to win.

if randy hadnt been the champ at the time he might not of been champ so fast or at all.

If Randy wasn't the champ in that era who would have been? Mir? Nog? Carwin? lol

 

[LugWrenchBjj]

Brawk and Jones piktogram goats

Bruh

 

[James L]

Technically as a fighter, low-end to be honest.
Obviously his wrestling is very good.

Business-wise, he is very successful personally and very useful also to the UFC which is why he gets gifted big fights despite being away for years at a time.

This.

He was never great, but was definitely effective in the offensive wrestling facet, and surprised people no matter where the fight took place with how well he used his size, reach, speed, weight, and offensive grappling power/strength.

His striking power was lacking for a man of his build, but he was still able to somewhat surprise and/or temporarily stun some fighters like Heath.

Let's not forget that his hilariously stupid looking ground and pound flurries, while not the strongest single strikes at all, was obviously never something able to be shrugged off unless your chin durability and heart was closer to that of a beast instead of a humans (think Gaethje, Hooker, prime Fedor and prime Hunt) a thousand jabs will TKO more often than one single bomb of an overhand will knock someone out cold.

Other than that, his effectiveness and ability to execute other techniques cleanly was shit. He never was going to win against Overeem and Velasquez or anyone remotely like them, but holy shit did he cower and run and slip and fall in terror like he was helpless prey of an apex predator going into overkill mode.

We all know what we think of Alistair as a fighter, and horsemeat or not, he runs through Lesnar every day of the week, no matter the year or rules. This is not a knock on Alistair or Lesnar or anyone else, it's just the truth.

Mir vs Lesnar might be 5 wins out of 5 losses for both, if they fight each other 10 times.

Let's just say idk if he can keep Derrick Lewis on the ground long enough to finish him or even come close unless Derrick decides to give up an RNC instead of muscle out or stall out, because while Lesnar is surprisingly good at offensive wrestling, he isn't DC good to say the very least.

 

[jjjjjjjjjjohnny]

unfortunately, given the fact that he has been on steroids, he doesn't deserve being in the same bracket as some of the greats.

 

[PalmStrike]

A throwback.

Mark Coleman
Mark Kerr
Brock Lesnar
Tom Erickson
Kevin Randleman
Dan Severn


He fits in nicely with this crowd.

 

[boss429]

good point, HW in particular shows less advancement than other weight classes. but the point is that lesnar has not been improving his mma game since he's been doing other things and now he's in his 40s. how good is he today? i doubt he beats many top ten guys. beating mark hunt doesn't impress me at all, btw. and by now lesnar hasn't won an mma fight in eight years.

Fair enough, you may be write but whether or not beating Hunt impressed you personally it did still happen and he was a top 10 guy at the time. Derrick Lewis is ranked #3 is he not? Can't really see him beating Brock unless Brock is totally useless now. I also think he would have a pretty good chance against Francis if Francis can't put him out in the first minute which nobody has ever done.

 

[snackgod]

If Randy wasn't the champ in that era who would have been? Mir? Nog? Carwin? lol

showed brock was around at the right time.

brock was 5-4 for a reason.

with out his wwe backing he doesing get a title shot off crushing heath hirring face hell he not in the ufc if not for wwe.

brock is just like bobby lashley was

 

[ufc_vs_pride]

If Randy wasn't the champ in that era who would have been? Mir? Nog? Carwin? lol

Nog would had easily submitted Brock lesnar

 

[CptHowdy187]

Brock had a good run, but by no means was he a great HW. Yes, he won the title and defended twice, but it's important to dig deeper. He came along when the UFC HW division was dreadfully thin and was gifted a title shot with a 2-1 record. Beating Randy is a solid win, but the reality is that Randy was 45, hadn't fought in more than a year, and had a 50 pound weight disadvantage. Again, his win over Mir was impressive, but Mir wasn't an elite HW (very good, but not elite). Brock then got beaten to within an inch of his life before choking out a gassed Carwin. And we all saw what happened against Cain and Overeem.

Ultimately, Brock was a good HW; arguably a top 20 all time HW. That's pretty amazing for someone who transitioned to MMA so late. Many people will things like, "he would have been GOAT if he transitioned to MMA right after college." Personally, I don't like to entertain those kinds of hypotheticals because you could just as easily say, "he wouldn't have been that good if he hadn't juiced his whole life."

Just a year and a half earlier Randy dominated Tim Sylvia with his wrestling.