How fat is too fat to be promoted?

Gungir said:
At what point does the level of your technique over the number of techniques count for you?

If this purple belt can roll against other purples, far more athletic blues, and even browns and control, isolate an arm, and finish with an americana or kimura, should he be worthy of a purple belt? Outside of submissions from guard, can he sweep, recompose from side or mount, and take the top position?

If he has an answer for each position he finds himself in, and can improve that position or submit against equally trained why shouldn't he keep being promoted?

I would take issue if he decided to start teaching moves, but not with the rank in the above situation.
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How can you ever make a fair comparison between any normal person and a 400+lb'er in a roll? Hell, besides him not being able to do much there are moves that a normal person probably couldn't do to him. Could you really get mount since your knees would probably not touch the ground? How do you cross choke someone with a neck that is presumably almost too large to get your hands around? And if he does get on top, how much technique does he really need to stay there? How do you even start a roll like that if he doesn't pull guard? Sweep him? Really? I can't squat 400 lbs, I'm not sure how many sweeps I could pull of against him. And God help you if you start standing...even if he can't throw you trying to throw him and failing would be very hazardous to your health if he were to fall on top of you.

I think the best answer is that if this guy is really serious about BJJ he needs to lose some weight. It's hard for me to believe that he has medical problems that allow him to do BJJ but prevent him from losing weight, though I acknowledge that it's a possibility.
 
Im 25 lbs overweight,so I hope the answer is over 25 lbs (is too fat to be promoted).
 
White belt so my opinion on promotions between blue and purple belts is rather meaningless. But never fear I shall post it anyway.


What I wonder is how you can possible maintain that size while training hard enough to progress, even if that progression is based on attendance.

Maybe this guy does very well against others because he skips the warm up and then he uses his weight. Only way I can see it happening.

And in my mind not being able to do a technique means you can
 
Meh, as an overweight guy (5'9 205 or so), I make it a point to work hard and get myself into better shape so I can progress in BJJ. Just in the last two months I've dropped 15 lbs trying to progress to a point where I feel comfortable competing. Isn't one of the premises of BJJ to constantly improve? That's not just technically, but physically as well. If your body isn't up to snuff, why should you be promoted?

If he has one move... and does it well.. wonderful. But someone at a purple belt level should be proficient enough to survive wherever a match goes. And if he can't do anything off his back, that's a huge detriment to his overall game.

But what do I know, I'm a white belt.
 
my instructor said to me before he has seen some black belts that are so out of shape and fat that they can barely demonstrate a cross choke from guard because their belly is in the way and hanging out of their gi, produce some very good competitors simply because they know how to teach, coach, and motivate their guys to want to train hard
 
If they can't do jiu jitsu, they don't really need a belt...
 
cc023 said:
If they can't do jiu jitsu, they don't really need a belt...
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Yeah, if all you do is smash people with your fatness, then you could probably do that before you learned jiu-jitsu. Sure, you may have learned how to do that more effectively, but that isn't really the point of jiu-jitsu.

Put the big guy under the side control of another guy close to his own size and ask him to show you how to escape against full resistance. Also ask him to perform a sweep against a resisting opponent, starting from his favorite guard position (which will probably be half guard since his legs are too fat to do closed guard). If he can't do either of those well, he didn't learn shit about jiu-jitsu.

Jiu-jitsu is about learning how to turn bad positions into good ones so that you can still win the fight even if you get dropped, taken down, mounted, whatever. Most big guys are terrible at this, once you put them on their backs they are done.
 
I think a purple belt is supposed to have a solid understanding of moves so he can teach. If he physically is unable to perform the moves but understands them well enough to defend against them and teach them, then applies a game that works for his body, I don't see a problem. I mean, most of us have certain techniques that just don't work very well for us at our current stage of learning.

Taken further, some BJJ practicioners have physical impairments that keep them from doing certain moves. Machado for example only has a thumb on one hand and has made good use of his body still. Some guys only have one arm etc. Now these are obviously different in some ways but they won't be applying certain moves, but may use others better. Same with any physical condition be it semi-permanent or not. But they should still understand the techniques.
 
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how fat is too fat?

well if an A6 doesnt fit, I'd say thats the first criteria (they dont make above A6 right?) cuz u wouldnt fit an actual belt.

probably wouldnt even fit in a gi. might have to buy a circus tent.
 
fattest guy in my school is 290 and should be about 205. he gets promoted as regularly as he should so weight doesnt really play a role in my school anyway.
 
i wonder how did he get all the way to purple belt without losing significant weight unless he was 600 lbs when he started?
 
I know a great guy who only has one leg. If he cant do a triangle, or a decent armbar because of that, should he be "held back", if the rest of his game improves? He has a horrible closed guard, but a very good half of a half-guard. Closed guard is the most basic of techniques and he sucks at it. Should he not get promoted if his over-all skills improve over time?
And if a normal person has say, 1 attack from closed guard, and isnt very good at it, but totally kills from half, side, mount, should he not be promoted when the rest of his skills make up for the lack in a certain technique?

I think its the same for overweight people. When the "rest" of the skillset make up for the things they cant do, then the reason for the "cant do it" becomes moot.
 
HHJ said:
i wonder how did he get all the way to purple belt without losing significant weight unless he was 600 lbs when he started?
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Because he will take a month or two long break a few times a year. Im also guessing his diet is suspect. I could be wrong on that though.

I disagree with the thought process that if you know the details jiujitsu, that is sufficient to be promoted because you can teach it. Granted I dont give two shits about my own belt color, but I do find it very interesting to get other people's train of thought on this subject. I am very surprised how the answers are split fairly evenly.

Now I wonder what people would say if a featherweight got promoted to purple belt and absolutely could not sub any white belts with offense off of his back. I am guessing the verdict would be more lopsided in that case.
 
His fat is a testament to how great his skills is. Maximum efficiency means minimum calories burned. When he hits brown belt his technique will probably be so high that he hits half a ton
 
Dirty Holt said:
I disagree with the thought process that if you know the details jiujitsu, that is sufficient to be promoted because you can teach it. Granted I dont give two shits about my own belt color, but I do find it very interesting to get other people's train of thought on this subject. I am very surprised how the answers are split fairly evenly.

Now I wonder what people would say if a featherweight got promoted to purple belt and absolutely could not sub any white belts with offense off of his back. I am guessing the verdict would be more lopsided in that case.
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I agree with you about the part on knowing details isn't sufficient to be promoted but I am partial on that. What if the person is able to impart the knowledge/details on a younger, more athletic and healthy person, and said person is able to use that knowledge successfully in competition? I have seen this happen and also personally experienced this. Although the teaching process is harder (since they can't effectively demonstrate) it has worked

In your above scenario I would think if the purple belt is not injured, old, or going against phenomenal whitebelts then the promotion should not have taken place.
 
You guys that give your opinion should put their belt level as well.

I am interested in the opinion changes with the belt level.

I have a Brown Belt. not sure if the stripes would matter.
 
I don't get why people keep comparing obesity to physical disabilities. Has our baseline really shifted to the point that we consider obese people equivalent to amputees?
 
EternalRag3 said:
how fat is too fat?

well if an A6 doesnt fit, I'd say thats the first criteria (they dont make above A6 right?) cuz u wouldnt fit an actual belt.

probably wouldnt even fit in a gi. might have to buy a circus tent.
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I started bjj in an A7(down to an A4). Hard to find but they exist.
 
All higher belts should have a wellrounded game IMO. You should be able to hold your own from every position.
All higher belts should also know alot of technique and be able to show the details of it even though it might not feature in their own game.

However, to say that there's a technical recipe for what you must be able to do beyond that is unfair IMO.

As long as your game is technically sound from all positions you should be able to progress.

There's a reason big guys rarely sub from their backs. You move slower in attack but your reaction time in defense is not impaired as much.
And as big guys progress this defense only gets better.

Hard to sub a big guy black belt from guard for almost anybody as long as he's decent.

This is said as a 300 lbs brown belt who sweeps almost anyone I roll with from guard.
 
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