How far would Cus D'amato's Tyson have gone

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Mysterio, Aug 30, 2018.

  1. Mysterio Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,255
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the decline this guy faced after Cus died is one of the most real stories of self destruction in boxing history.

    He literally owed his entire career to him and when he was gone he was a misguided, delinquent, shell of his former self.
     
  2. The Blob Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2018
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    0
    D'Amato/Rooney trained Tyson KOs Holyfield but loses to Lewis.
     
  3. nastyleft Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Messages:
    4,888
    Likes Received:
    1
    GOAT discussion would've had merit by now. Dude KOs Holyfield and avoids Lewis, knowcking out guys until retirement.
     
  4. You guys do realize Cus died when Tyson was 13-0 and just starting out?

    Not really sure why ppl act as if he had a downward spiral, he literally won his next 24 fights after Cus passed.

    But go on with this dumbass narrative
     
  5. StopDucking Ronda Rousey hater

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,717
    Likes Received:
    133
    More like one of the biggest myths made up by millennials who discovered Tyson with Very Bad Trip.

    Cus died in 1985. Tyson then went on to become the youngest HW world champion the next year and defended his title multiple times. His decline began when he fired Kevin Rooney in 1988. That's why we all say Tyson's prime lasted from 1986-1988.

    Kevin was Mike's real trainer, Cus was just a paternal figure. It was always Kevin who worked with Mike on the mitts or coached him ringside (Cus never travelled to events and just sat home waiting for the phone call). To an interviewer who asked him what he'd learned from Cus, Mike said "he didn't train me technically, just talked to me for hours about life in general".

    Sure, Cus played a very important part in Tyson's life; he taught him to clean his room and built his confidence. He even trained Rooney who went on to train Mike. One could even argue had Cus been alive longer, Tyson would never had parted ways who Rooney and would have had a much better career but let's stop with the narrative that Cus' death marked the start of Mike's decline because it's simply not true.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  6. Mysterio Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,255
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, no, no... this is bullshit.

    After Cus died Tyson stayed with Rooney and while their professional relationship was good, Tyson declined emotionally after the death of his father figure, and his working relationship with Rooney became a mess. When they parted ways the decline was reaching its zenith.
     
  7. Mysterio Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,255
    Likes Received:
    0
    Rooney was a great trainer but he wasn't a great mentor.

    Mike needed both to hold himself together, being unstable as he was, and his relationship with Rooney deteriorated as a result.
     
  8. StopDucking Ronda Rousey hater

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,717
    Likes Received:
    133
    So the "zenith" of Mike Tyson's decline was his fight against Michael Spinks in 1988. Consider never posting again.
     
  9. Mysterio Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2018
    Messages:
    2,255
    Likes Received:
    0
    I said it was "reaching" its zenith. He lost 6 months later and got dropped in sparring prior.

    Please stop being condescending. This is what I do. You have no chance.
     
  10. HardasNAILZ Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2007
    Messages:
    4,691
    Likes Received:
    68
    Location:
    Pulsinatti
    Tyson is probably the most overrated fighter of all time.
     
  11. DaveDave Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2016
    Messages:
    890
    Likes Received:
    45
    Yes, & in a weird way now he's simultaneously one of the most under-rated.

    Some people (I think, perhaps, the OP is one of them) go "Tyson's prime lasted exactly the forty-five seconds it took him to knock out Michael Johnson & he should be let off any & every flaw he ever showed in any fight post this 'cos extenuating circumstances"—they have an excuse for why Tucker hurt him, why Bonecrusher nullified him, why Quick Tillis showed what a guy with a gameplan & fast hands could do & on & on & on.

    But I think because of people like this, in the last ten years some people have over-reacted & are like "Well, he was basically shit".

    A terrifyingly fast starter & savage puncher with blinding handspeed & a very solid chin, Tyson had a chance at getting to almost anyone you can name early on. But I'd back Holyfield to take him at every single sport you can name at every single point in their lives (whether boxing or table-tennis, I think 99/100 he takes it to Mike in a way that Mike wouldn't like, & Mike would always always break first whether they were 21 or 102) & Ali would get in his head beforehand then make him look like a mug (though I think he'd put Ali down at least once, but get so bamboozled he'd foul his way out or get so pasted late on the ref would stop it, especially in a 15 rounder). A 30 year old Larry Holmes would give him a far better run for his money than the old version did. Lewis would've always been a stylistic nightmare for him.

    He's not the invincible ogre his fanboys cream over but he's not the one-trick pony he's been painted as since.
     
  12. TeenageMutantLesnarTurtle Brown Belt

    Joined:
    May 14, 2017
    Messages:
    3,194
    Likes Received:
    415
    Still would've lost to Holyfield and Lewis and still wouldve been scared of old man Foreman.
     
  13. bigredmachine81666 Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2018
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    0
    It would have been interesting to see him mentally focused in the 90's stay out of jail and fight guys like Tua,holyfield,bowe,morrison,briggs,foreman and lewis. He could have left an impressive legacy.
     
  14. mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    12,294
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    x
    had he lived, the money that still came would have tested the relationships in the same way and mike was gullible and easy to con, i still think someone could turn him against cus. he says it would never have happened but talk is cheap. as far as, would he have been greater? hard to say, cus had a style and mentality, but i don't know if he could have encouraged tyson to do things that would make someone with his short arms and height to excel under any circumstance. the reach/height are real issues that would have caused problems without some more versatility in his skills.
     
  15. mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2003
    Messages:
    12,294
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    x
    cus was a lot more than a paternal figure, he had rooney do a lot of the hands on stuff but rooney was a cus disciple.one thing that nott too many people mention is all three men had the same features , with the same funny eyebrows, strange.
     
  16. Prefect Black Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Messages:
    5,440
    Likes Received:
    615
    Tyson didn't need Rooney. He needed a father figure or someone he respected to guide him and keep him in line and on path. Maybe, had Tyson grown up in a stable environment he would not need Cus or someone like him as much. By the time Tyson became champion, it was too late to get him to listen to anyone else. Almost all of Tyson's faults are the result of stuff out of the ring: bad prep, bad women, prison, bad coaching, bad financial decisions. Athletically he was a speciman and IQ wise he is pretty smart and knowledgeable about boxing.
     
  17. PUO3 You are a can. Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    70,146
    Likes Received:
    2,960
    Could have been the greatest ever, or could have still went into a downward spiral.

    Tyson is a once in a lifetime talent. But nothing will change that he was a total headcase and wildly unstable on top of it.
     
  18. PUO3 You are a can. Staff Member Senior Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    70,146
    Likes Received:
    2,960
     
  19. XThe GreatestX Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    13,773
    Likes Received:
    1,607
    Location:
    Oakland
    I would agree actuAlly
     
  20. Ignatius Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    230
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Texas
    He had a LOT of wins after Cus died. 'One of the most real stories of self destruction in boxing history'? Objectively, that statement is slightly over dramatic. If he had one of the greatest declines in boxing history after 13 fights, let's be honest here. We probably wouldn't be talking about him.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.