how far do you think ahead when you attack?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by dangermonkey, Jul 27, 2005.

  1. dangermonkey

    dangermonkey White Belt

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    most grapplers talk about how they think 3,4 moves ahead in a match. like chess, when you do something, you expect your opponent to do something back, so you have to be ready to do the next move, and when he reacts, the next move after that, ad infinitum...

    do any of you do this with your muay thai? i mean, certain combos, such as jab-straight-hook are standard, but what about something like this:

    i throw a jab(left), and i expect opponent to teep, so i expect to parry his kick, throw a teh(spelling?)/roundkick, then follow with two punches, a low kick, etc...

    how much of your actual fight strategy is baiting (and i say baiting, mind you, not faking)?

    some might say i overthink my fight game, but then again, i never was one of those brawlers, and i always appreciated the intellectual aspect of fighting.

    thoughts?
     
  2. Hammer_Fist

    Hammer_Fist Black Belt

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    Personally I don't think too far ahead. I usually commit myself to a combo and go for it. Or if when I'm sparring a guy, and I think I got his rythem down then I'll commit myself to a certain counter attack. I think it's easier in grappling to think a head but standing up really how far ahead can you actually plan?
     
  3. fdupnct

    fdupnct Blue Belt

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    In Standup, I don't plan, I react. I don't see how you can really do anything else. As soon as you think you can do x, x, & x someone will throw a counter and screw you all up and then what. Besides, there is almost no time to thing in most situations. If you have to think about what your doing, or what your going to do next, your going to lose.
     
  4. Gregster

    Gregster Black Belt

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    It's been quite some time since I've done any real sparring...but when I was at the top of my game, I tended to be somewhere in between setting up attacks and reacting to them. I found that the best opportunities in a fight tended to involve good, fast, aggressive counters, especially if I was capitalizing on an opponents' mistakes.

    You *can*, to an extent, create opportunities with good combos and if you're sufficently better than your opponent largely control the fight and make it go where you want to go. However, instinct and experience from fighting allows you to do this, not planning. Human opponents have an annoying propensity to not do what you'd like them to do, and if you anticipate a counter kick and he punches, or you try to drive him back and he moves laterally, your plan goes to shit, your reactions lag, and you risk him getting the upper hand.
     
  5. dangermonkey

    dangermonkey White Belt

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    good points, mates.

    one things about having to react though, it just makes for boring fights, two guys just waiting for the other to do something first. i've been known to bust out a flying knee, just to jumpstart action when things get slow...

    i think my question does have a lot to do with instinct and experience, both of which obviously come with time.

    for the most part, i'm trying to rconcile two things: if you attack first, obviously the other huy gets to counter. if you wait to see what he does so you can counter, and he does the same thing, obviously nothing happens. i still feel that it's good to have your combos, and then combos for when the guys conters/reacts.
     
  6. fdupnct

    fdupnct Blue Belt

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    I wasn't saying don't push the action, or try to create an opening, thats part of the fight game. I was saying don't plan on connecting with the jab, cross, hook, thigh kick. I'll try explaining it like this.

    If you are the one that needs to push the pace you should decide what you want to throw by seeing where his openings are, you may decide to throw the jab, cross, hook, thigh kick combo. However after you throw the jab everything is going to change. If you land the jab there is his reaction you'll have to deal with, if he slips or sidestep the jab then thats another situation, and so on (you guys know what I'm talking about). So he may not be there to throw the cross, you need to react to that. Once your plans get disrupted then you just have to go with it.
     
  7. dangermonkey

    dangermonkey White Belt

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    If you land the jab there is his reaction you'll have to deal with, if he slips or sidestep the jab then thats another situation, and so on (you guys know what I'm talking about). So he may not be there to throw the cross, you need to react to that. Once your plans get disrupted then you just have to go with it.[/QUOTE]

    point taken. didn't mean to seem so one dimensional. adding to your point, i guess power of the shots come into play as well. i mean, if he goes down with the one-two, no point kicking anymore right?

    i think this has to do with the fact that lately, i've been sparring 50% power, so what usually happens is we do hit each other, without much consequence because for the most part, you don't have to worry about getting hit, only about making your own shots connect. at this point though, i'm trying to factor in what will happen when his counters will begin to hurt, which means i need to be ready to counter when he counters, and so on...
     
  8. ThaNeXtCHAMP

    ThaNeXtCHAMP Banned Banned

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    i usually think wut i am gonna do after one move never really think wut is after that..kinda like going for an overhead punch and then going in for a double leg take down..u know
     
  9. fdupnct

    fdupnct Blue Belt

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    I know exactly what your talking about. The other person throws a cross and you land the perfect counter but because your not throwing 100% into the shot he doesn't react to the counter he actually follows up your counter with a shot of his own. The only way around that is to go full speed/full power. It doesn't have to be all the time, but once and a while until all parties are comfortable will help wonders with your abilities and timing. I train by the rule "You have to feel it to appreciate it". It usually leaves me sore the next day but it's worth it.
     
  10. Gregster

    Gregster Black Belt

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    Correct. You need to cover all the bases.

    You're odds of winning by being of offense or defense almost all the time are slim. If you're purely defensive, your opponent has all the time in the world to pick you apart. Fight purely offensive, and the moment you lose the initiative and go on defense, you will stay on defense get your ass kicked.

    Sparring training outside the ring should involve relentless drilling combinations, both offensive and defensive, until they become a reflex, second nature. With instinct and experience you'll learn how to read an opponent, size him up, figure out how to deal with him. If your offensive AND defensive combos are so ingrained that you don't even *need* to think, you can adjust to the ebb and flow of fighting a human being, and easily adjust to that dynamic environment as it changes.
     
  11. SKD

    SKD Blue Belt

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    I don't think ahead much at all, but I'm a noob

    I do remember once I threw a jab to the body then one to the head cos I thought I would trick him, and it actually worked. But other than that, there aren't many more examples of me actually using complex strategy in sparring, usually because I'm just trying to avoid being hit.
     
  12. phenomfan1529

    phenomfan1529 Brown Belt

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    I dont think ahead at all really. Usually just react
     
  13. TwIsTeD&BrOkEn

    TwIsTeD&BrOkEn With These Hands I Control The Fate of Millions

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  14. Ultrashogun

    Ultrashogun Red Belt

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    At the beginning I attack with my combos, Ill try everything a few times. Then I tend to remember his reactions and capitalize on them.
     
  15. recoil

    recoil Orange Belt

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    ultrashogun is right.... you need to go with the flow....but as ultrashogun said, you need to take note of your opponents reactions and capitalize on them.

    for example: i might open up with a left jab or a double jab to see how my opponent reacts. if my opponent covers up and stands his ground (jammin me and thwarting a rear round kick).... next time i will jab, throw a short left round kick to his inner thigh and go from there.

    next reacton: if on the first "feelout" jabs my opponent steps back and parries the jab(s), i would be open and ready the second time to throw my jab and blast a rear roud kick to his thigh.

    its hard to explain but its all about learning your opponent habits if you want to plan ahead. most of the time you cant plan of coarse and must go with the flow.
     
  16. OpethDrums

    OpethDrums Banned Banned

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    i think ahead 2 moves
     
  17. Herculean

    Herculean Purple Belt

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    "don't think , feel!! " - bruce lee
     
  18. Corey123

    Corey123 Guest

    I try not to think ahead. If I think ahead, I will usually make a mistake and get hit. I try to react to what my opponent is doing. If he is about to throw a jab at me, I don't block automatically. Because he could be faking me out and then counter with another punch. I wait until he throws the jab AND then I block/counter. I don't think, I keep my mind clear and react.
     
  19. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    i agree striking is more dynamic; u can't even assume how someone can or will react when u throw a strike; there is just no possible way you can do that, how someone defends or escapes your shots affects the next shop u throw. How they respond to ur strike effects what else u do.

    now u can gameplan a bit based on the 1st look, but after that u have to react to what they do or don't do....
     

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