How far can Amanda Nunes go in men`s division?

[Esile]

This thread has to be made by some white knight idiot...the same things were said about rousey..remember?? nunes hits hard...no doubt...but hard for a girl is far far far different than hard for a man. before you ask such idiotic questions...take a biology class and learn the physical differences between men and women...could nunes perhaps give some local amateur guy a decent fight...maybe...but even that would be tough...but I could see her probably landing on some dude, with little experience or just someone who isn't very good...

But as far as fighting professional men fighters? She'd get totally wrecked...look at other sports. for instance...the us olympic womens soccer team has lost to 15 year old boys soccer team...Fact...the us women hockey team has lost to high school boys hockey teams...do you see the reasoning here....while watching a womens fight, they might look impressive...but the moment you put them up against other men, or even boys, they will lose...and lose badly....

i agree that amanda nunes would get wrecked by any ufc fighters, even in weight division lower than her, due to the great biological avdantage that men have
however soccer is not a good analogy at all, in soccer (and in the majoriy of sports) the difference between male and female is much greater than in combat sports (especially the one that involves grappling), even if it may seems logical and natural to assume the opposite, since in soccer the technique and the abiity to perform it is much more strictly linked to athletic and genetic attributes than fighting techniques, which are developed to be used effectively regardless of athletic ability as much as possible, in order to compensate and defend themselves against biological superior opponent, i can say that since i have both grappled an played soccer (i live in a country where soccer is huge) for many years

 

[Franklin U.]

she would beat every untrained man even if they are much bigger than her, exlcluding truly gigantic and/or super strong freaks like strongmen and nfl athletes, maybe not by punching them standing but using grappling it would be easy

with that being said, she would get absolutely wrecked by any ufc fighter, bar obviously cm punk, and maybe (but it is an huge maybe) some random low ranked no name with very poor grappling in the flyweight division

- we're " basically " on same page. ?

 

[Esile]

- we're " basically " on same page. ?

well not quite, you said that she would be able to beat untrained men her size or a bit bigger, while i think that she would not have much trouble if any with 99% of untrained men, even the ones that are much bigger and stronger than her

 

[Franklin U.]

well not quite, you said that she would be able to beat untrained men her size or a bit bigger, while i think that she would not have much trouble if any with 99% of untrained men, even the ones that are much bigger and stronger than her

Well what I mean is men who have some size on her WHO KNOW HOW TO HANDLE THEMSELVES ( and they'd probably still leave with a battle scar or 3).

....and when I say that, I'm not talking mma trained individuals.....simply what I said.

 

[Esile]

Well what I mean is men who have some size on her WHO KNOW HOW TO HANDLE THEMSELVES ( and they'd probably still leave with a battle scar or 3).

what do you mean by knowing how to handle themselves?
if you mean tough guys with some street fighting experience but not actual training and grappling knowledge i guess that she would beat them even if a lot bigger

 

[Franklin U.]

what do you mean by knowing how to handle themselves?
if you mean tough guys with some street fighting experience but not actual training and grappling knowledge i guess that she would beat them even if a lot bigger

Then I guess we're not " basically "on the same page - especially with " the lot bigger" verbiage u used.
Hey - no biggie. I try to be fair .That's my opinion

 

[Franklin U.]

what do you mean by knowing how to handle themselves?
if you mean tough guys with some street fighting experience but not actual training and grappling knowledge i guess that she would beat them even if a lot bigger

Let me ask you a question ( and remember I answered my original retort in a fair and as honest as I feel i can be way- i still stand by 100%). If a much bigger man that can handle himself( obviously with a significant reach that said) wallops Amanda in nose ,jaw, temple or back of the ear- what do you think happens ?

 

[Judoka1532]

I'd wager the ufc's entire men's 135 and 145 roster would dispose of her in the first round.

 

[Esile]

Let me ask you a question ( and remember I answered my original retort in a fair and as honest as I feel i can be way- i still stand by 100%). If a much bigger man that can handle himself( obviously with a significant reach that said) wallops Amanda in nose ,jaw, temple or back of the ear- what do you think happens ?

he knocks her out, that's why she should not let it happen and avoid the risk by not trying to trade punches with him, but she should close the distance, thus rendering the strikes ineffective, and take him down, where with enough technique you can subdue even a much bigger and stronger untrained opponent that will not know what to do on the ground and would be lost, giving up his back easily when trying to stand up and stuff like that

i can ask you, using the same logic, if amanda take the much bigger opponent's back (and passing under the arm of an untrained much taller untrained opponent is extremely easy) and put him in a rear naked choke, what do you think happens?

 

[Franklin U.]

he knocks her out, that's why she should not let it happen and avoid the risk by not trying to trade punches with him, but she should close the distance, thus rendering the strikes ineffective, and take him down, where with enough technique you can subdue even a much bigger and stronger untrained opponent that will not know what to do on the ground and would be lost, giving up his back easily when trying to stand up and stuff like that

i can ask you, using the same logic, if amanda take the much bigger opponent's back (and passing under the arm of an untrained much taller untrained opponent is extremely easy) and put him in a rear naked choke, what do you think happens?

First of all " extremely easy" is just your opinion. We're talking, again, a bigger man with naturally longer limbs and ,lol, probably someone who's ALOT TOUGHER to control than what your envisioning.
That's nothing against Amanda especially if you took note on what I said about her and the probability that even the bigger( much - in this case) would know hes been in a scrap. Let me skip to the end and again this bigger someone who knows how to handle himself are very important operative words. Unless shes roided up ( like a man) , she'll find herself either separated from consciousness or ragdolled to the point where all her technique goes out the window and if by some chance she is on his back , we'll see if she has reach and strength to put him out. He might even (without knowing what he's doing) turn into the choke and then we have a really bad situation.

Listen, unlike most fools on this topic , I'm not only giving her a much obvious better and realistic chance as per title but I'm all for chick power and wouldn't underestimate anyone but I also have to answer without compromising my integrity of MY OPINION.

Let me also remind you that I watch the way this gal throws a punch and it's scary and its maybe 1 of 3 that I've seen ( again, shoulder torque- power and all) that throws hands like a man and MAYBE shed handle herself better in THE DEBATE we're talking about.... maybe not.

 

[Esile]

First of all " extremely easy" is just your opinion. We're talking, again, a bigger man with naturally longer limbs and ,lol, probably someone who's ALOT TOUGHER to control than what your envisioning.

no it's not just an opinion, it is actually very easy, i have done it a lot of times on much taller, bigger and stronger untrained guys (i'm 5'6) even when i was just 110 lbs and i was barely trained, just shoot low for a takedown or for a clinch, and as soon as they put their arms high (trying to push you away, grab you, punch you, instinctitevely headlock or guillotine you ecc....) you slip under their arm and take the back, the taller they are the less you have go low and so the quicker and easier it is

also untrained people are not that hard to control on the ground even if much bigger and stronger, even online you can find video of jacked bodybuilders being easily controlled by very skinny and unathletic male blue belt that are probably psyhically weaker amanda, and most important an untrained guy in a grappling context is going to burn all of his energy spazzing out and become exhausted very fast, like from thirty seconds to one minute at the most, while the trained grappler will preserve is energy by both moving efficiently and also having developed the specifically cardio for grappling (which cannot be sobsititued by other activites), and when you are exhausted you are very weak no matter how strong you were to begin with

have you ever trained in grappling?

also it depends on how big of a man we are talking about, if it's truly huge and gigantic i agree with you, i'm talking about your average built and not particularly jacked or athletic 200-210 lbs guy, not an nfl athlete or a massive powerlifter

Unless shes roided up ( like a man) , she'll find herself either separated from consciousness or ragdolled to the point where all her technique goes out the window and if by some chance she is on his back , we'll see if she has reach and strength to put him out. He might even (without knowing what he's doing) turn into the choke and then we have a really bad situation.

trying to defend the choke and escaping from the back using strenght is going to cost him a lot of energy, the best approach would be to establish the seatbelt grip and both hooks in and let him gett tired before sinking the choke, and no, in that scenario there is no way that he is going to turn into on a bjj black belt, it's not a matter of strengh since you are mechanically glued to him

the only chance the big guy has to escape back control is to stand up and fall backward crushing her, but that rarely works, and most important she should be skilled enough to abort the back mount, so she can take him down again from the rear clinch and rinse and repeat, and he soon would be too exhausted to do it anymore

 

[Franklin U.]

no it's not just an opinion, it is actually very easy, i have done it a lot of times on much taller, bigger and stronger untrained guys (i'm 5'6) even when i was just 110 lbs and i was barely trained, just shoot low for a takedown or for a clinch, and as soon as they put their arms high (trying to push you away, grab you, punch you, instinctitevely headlock or guillotine you ecc....) you slip under their arm and take the back, the taller they are the less you have go low and so the quicker and easier it is

also untrained people are not that hard to control on the ground even if much bigger and stronger, even online you can find video of jacked bodybuilders being easily controlled by very skinny and unathletic male blue belt that are probably psyhically weaker amanda, and most important an untrained guy in a grappling context is going to burn all of his energy spazzing out and become exhausted very fast, like from thirty seconds to one minute at the most, while the trained grappler will preserve is energy by both moving efficiently and also having developed the specifically cardio for grappling (which cannot be sobsititued by other activites), and when you are exhausted you are very weak no matter how strong you were to begin with

have you ever trained in grappling?

also it depends on how big of a man we are talking about, if it's truly huge and gigantic i agree with you, i'm talking about your average built and not particularly jacked or athletic 200-210 lbs guy, not an nfl athlete or a massive powerlifter


trying to defend the choke and escaping from the back using strenght is going to cost him a lot of energy, the best approach would be to establish the seatbelt grip and both hooks in and let him gett tired before sinking the choke, and no, in that scenario there is no way that he is going to turn into on a bjj black belt, it's not a matter of strengh since you are mechanically glued to him

the only chance the big guy has to escape back control is to stand up and fall backward crushing her, but that rarely works, and most important she should be skilled enough to abort the back mount, so she can take him down again from the rear clinch and rinse and repeat, and he soon would be too exhausted to do it anymore

There was no need for all that- I guess the operative words here are " much bigger" which was used by you( actually I might of used "a bit bigger"- whatever)
If you go to my very first post- I just re-direct everything to that where that's my opinion and (I think) , I wouldn't be shocked if she did ......whatever whatever.
Hell, im no giant but im 6 1 and 215 pounds of steel( just saying) and if she came up in my face , lol , I'd probably just walk away(meaning "no thanks")( plus I'd never put my hands on a girl anyway).
I've also let a female judoka ( about your size- maybe 5-7 pounds heavier) put me in pre armbar position ( of course, I was allowed to lock up my arm) on my back and she couldn't move me ....... I mean- after a few minutes, it was futile and drill was stopped.
I'm not an expert on what we're actually arguing about but AGAIN OR INSTEAD -im more on your side of things than not.If this is about a few pounds or how I worded something than it really comes down EXACTLY to the individual ( who shes up agsinst)

How's that, can you live with that? I'm actually trying to flow with you .... not against but still sticking to my main point of my initial opinion so if it means giving up some poundage your way then .... ok ??

 

[bigconan]

i agree that amanda nunes would get wrecked by any ufc fighters, even in weight division lower than her, due to the great biological avdantage that men have
however soccer is not a good analogy at all, in soccer (and in the majoriy of sports) the difference between male and female is much greater than in combat sports (especially the one that involves grappling), even if it may seems logical and natural to assume the opposite, since in soccer the technique and the abiity to perform it is much more strictly linked to athletic and genetic attributes than fighting techniques, which are developed to be used effectively regardless of athletic ability as much as possible, in order to compensate and defend themselves against biological superior opponent, i can say that since i have both grappled an played soccer (i live in a country where soccer is huge) for many years

My point was simply that no matter what sport you take...the men are far superior...and if anything else, combat sports would show that even more...and yes, size and strength will always matter in a fight...Strength is heavily involved in wrestling...explosive movements and power.

 

[theleerygoose]

Beats 90% of sherdoggers, 25% of amature men, and 0% of UFC men.

 

[Esile]

My point was simply that no matter what sport you take...the men are far superior...and if anything else, combat sports would show that even more...and yes, size and strength will always matter in a fight...Strength is heavily involved in wrestling...explosive movements and power.

what i said is that, while men are extremely superior to female in every sport, in combat sport (especially grappling) the difference is smaller than most sport, contrary to popular belief, since female athletic build and genetic abilities (i don't mean simply strengh, but things like coordination in the specific movements involeved in soccer, rush in the short distance, rapidly change direction ball at the feet) are less suited to perform the basic soccer techniques, while they are suited to learn fighting techniques
fighiting techniques are designed to overcame ahtletic advantage (altough they have clearly limits in the effectiveness of it), while most sport techniques are built on innate atheltic abilities and you cannot perform them without, also they are less coounter-intuitive so there is not the factor of "clueless untrained guy taken by surprise not realizing what is happening" that you will have for example in bjj

 

[Esile]

There was no need for all that- I guess the operative words here are " much bigger" which was used by you( actually I might of used "a bit bigger"- whatever)
If you go to my very first post- I just re-direct everything to that where that's my opinion and (I think) , I wouldn't be shocked if she did ......whatever whatever.
Hell, im no giant but im 6 1 and 215 pounds of steel( just saying) and if she came up in my face , lol , I'd probably just walk away(meaning "no thanks")( plus I'd never put my hands on a girl anyway).
I've also let a female judoka ( about your size- maybe 5-7 pounds heavier) put me in pre armbar position ( of course, I was allowed to lock up my arm) on my back and she couldn't move me ....... I mean- after a few minutes, it was futile and drill was stopped.
I'm not an expert on what we're actually arguing about but AGAIN OR INSTEAD -im more on your side of things than not.If this is about a few pounds or how I worded something than it really comes down EXACTLY to the individual ( who shes up agsinst)

How's that, can you live with that? I'm actually trying to flow with you .... not against but still sticking to my main point of my initial opinion so if it means giving up some poundage your way then .... ok ??

well yes, armbar are not a reliable option against much stronger opponent that have their hands locked (despite not being impossibile to break the grip, and i'm pretty sure that someone on amanda level knows them, a random female judoka may not), that does not invalidate anything about what i said about taking the back, taking them down and choking them

may be there is a misunderstanding though, in my book a 200-220 pounds guy is "much bigger" than amanda, if you don't considered a 220 punds man as being "much bigger" than her than we probably agree, since i think that she would lose against guys who are too huge and strong like a 270/280 lbs very muscular or athletic guy

 

[Franklin U.]

well yes, armbar are not a reliable option against much stronger opponent that have their hands locked (despite not being impossibile to break the grip, and i'm pretty sure that someone on amanda level knows them, a random female judoka may not), that does not invalidate anything about what i said about taking the back, taking them down and choking them

may be there is a misunderstanding though, in my book a 200-220 pounds guy is "much bigger" than amanda, if you don't considered a 220 punds man as being "much bigger" than her than we probably agree, since i think that she would lose against guys who are too huge and strong like a 270/280 lbs very muscular or athletic guy

For the most part, I'm on your side.....that's allowed and (respectfully) let's leave it at that.

 

[somatotropin]

Nah low ranked flyweights would just get choked or something, some even TKO'd or KO'd. That division is absolute garbage and Nunes is bigger than most of them. Natural differences aren't that extreme when Nunes isn't the average woman and the skill/size difference is that big. Garbrandt or Kara-France KO her though