How does the UFC say the fighters are not employees?

[YagyuINC]

So I was reading the release of the statement by UFC brass to all the fighters concerning fighter union. This part kind of boggles my mind

"I'll just point out the most obvious and illogical fact about this latest tactic. As a matter of law, unions can only organize employees, and as we all know, MMA athletes are independent contractors

 

[Cygnus-X]

They adopted this strategy from WWE. Something tells me both organisations could get into trouble for this strategy if someone really scrutinized it.

 

[dmtpanic]

I need to see some proof before i believe that letter was real.

 

[johndhi]

they are toeing a fine line as far as independent contractor classification goes. it saves ufc money by not providing benefits and some other requirements of hiring employees. it's kind of shocking how few people are aware of this.

 

[Xaa]

From the IRS website concerning independent contractors...

"You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed"

They don't control how the fighter performs their services. If they did, they would have Guida fight, they wouldn't have had Fitch lay on guys, they certainly weren't controlling Kalib Starnes and so forth.

The fighters control how they fight which is the service they provide.

 

[JudoThrowFiasco]

I highly doubt that letter was real....

 

[TFanatic]

Has anyone ever worked a contract job? They're all basically like this. You can still be fired, or released from your contract, you use your own equipment, you have to show up to work, and other terms can be dictated through negotiations.

This isn't extraordinary or world changing

 

[ALAN PARTRIDGE]

why do people actually care?

 

[Godzilla3232]

It could be argued both ways; while the UFC's policies regarding fighter contracts may not strictly adhere to the letter of an independent contractor, they also don't adhere to the letter of being an employee.

The Reebok deal definitely blurred the line, but before that fighters chose their own gear, used their own facilities and equipment to train, had their own sponsors. The only thing the UFC controlled was the time and place the fighter's services were required, which is not a condition that disqualifies the job as a contract position.

I believe the UFC could take legitimate legal action against an attempt to unionize, because individual contractors unionizing is akin to corporate entities collaborating on prices. The inconsistencies the Reebok deal creates don't change that fact enough to squash the legal issues around a fighters union.

 

[Magooglie]

A lot of the fuzzy gray areas will only be clarified legally if a UFC fighter sues the UFC regarding those areas.

 

[ColonelAngus1]

They adopted this strategy from WWE. Something tells me both organisations could get into trouble for this strategy if someone really scrutinized it.

Not uncommon. The people that deliver the mail for FedEx are not FedEx employees, yet they have to wear FedEx uniforms. Many companies use the independent contractor model.

 

[opl]

Has anyone ever worked a contract job? They're all basically like this. You can still be fired, or released from your contract, you use your own equipment, you have to show up to work, and other terms can be dictated through negotiations.

This isn't extraordinary or world changing

This describes it.

 

[Malthian]

The definitive statement on whether they are employees or contractors would have to be settled by a court, but in terms of how the UFC would argue that they're contractors the following points would most likely be raised...

-The contract is for a set number of fights, not an hourly or weekly wage
-They are not required to be on site or company premises except in relation to specific fights
-They provide their own training and conditioning. They are free to train at whatever gym they desire, with whatever trainers they desire, at whatever pace they desire, at any time they desire
-Gloves and shorts are workplace attire and safety equipment. The gloves are mandated by the state to protect the fighters. They can still strike and submit someone regardless of the gloves. And requiring Reebok shorts is no different than requiring that a Microsoft contractor wear a microsoft Polo Shirt at an official event
-They are free to execute their service (the fight) in whatever manner they desire. They can strike, grapple, or simply run around the cage for 3 minutes or 25 minutes entirely based upon their own choices
-They are free to decline specific jobs (fights) whenever they wish. The contract does not require they fight specific people, only that they complete a specific number of fights within a fixed time period
-They are free to pursue outside sponsors as they wish, as well as hold other jobs as they wish as long as it does not directly compete with the UFC
-They are free to leave the UFC whenever they wish as long as they fulfill their contract of services. And they can even choose to not complete their contract as long as they do not sign to fight with a competing organization
-They are free to spend whatever monies they wish for whatever purposes they wish. They can have 1 trainer, 10 trainers, or 100 trainers if they so desire. They can spend $10 or $100,000 to prepare themselves for their fights. They can spend whatever monies they wish on whatever equipment they wish for the purposes of training, whether that's using Nike apparel in their training gyms, or wear speedo's when they run as long as it's not during televised promotional filming, media requirements or official events
-They are not required to report their progress in terms of training or fighting to the UFC. They don't have to provide update reports or fulfill any reporting requirements to the UFC.

It's a pretty solid argument when you think about it.

 

[Francis Rossi]

They adopted this strategy from WWE. Something tells me both organisations could get into trouble for this strategy if someone really scrutinized it.

Vince has been taken to court over it, but the lawsuits never got anywhere.

 

[GrewUpSlapBoxin]

I need to see some proof before i believe that letter was real.

Its believable but i agree with you , bro. Its only fair

 

[gotBooched]

why do people actually care?

If you received paychecks from Zuffa you would care.

IC's imply the promotion is responsible for pretty much nothing except for ensuring you fights. You're responsible for practically everything else.

 

[ALAN PARTRIDGE]

If you received paychecks from Zuffa you would care.

IC's imply the promotion is responsible for pretty much nothing except for ensuring you fights. You're responsible for practically everything else.

I'm not, so I don't