How does a Take Down in the last 15 secs "Steal the round"?

[Fedorzilla]

A takedown that does damage can be scored like a power strike... Take a Rampage slam or something like that.

However, if you're scrambling and just barely claw the guy down to the mat, doing no damage, I think a takedown would be uneventful in terms of scoring. I also hate that an "attempted takedown" gets a round when both guys are just up against the fence and both are unable to do anything. If you have that round and the last 10 seconds Randy gets that unspectacular TD... I think it's a 10-10 round. It's like a guy in boxing holding and neither boxer can do any damage, only the scoring in MMA gives wrestling the tip of the cap.

 

[mayhem87]

take downs should not be easy to get and therefore should be given a reward for successful one. if it didn't result in anything then why take the person down in the first place? maybe because I come from a wrestling background and actually attempt/successfully take someone down is what leads me to be bit one sided. it also keeps the pace moving. the person that took the other is now in the lead and can stall (although shouldnt). this will make the bottom person have to react and do something to score themselves points. plus if they were letting the person get the take down as part of their "game plan" then they deserve to be behind. why should the one that just expended all the energy of a take down just to put the other person in the favorable position be penalized?

 

[Title Fight Productions]

Same way a nice flurry of power shots like a 4 punch combo or something will? I mean if the fight is very close than something major like a takedown or a nice combo of punches landed can steal a round.

Seems pretty simple.

 

[nefti]

the same way if you take your opponent's back you usually get points for it.

 

[lechien]

Same way a nice flurry of power shots like a 4 punch combo or something will? I mean if the fight is very close than something major like a takedown or a nice combo of punches landed can steal a round.

Seems pretty simple.

good point. I always hear the corner hitting the floor at the 10 seconds bell.

Do the judges look at the punches and score them for the hits or just the attempt?

 

[206warrior]

Which is why MMA is the king of sports. Dudes boxing awkwardly for 4 minutes and 30 seconds, then shooting for takedowns to earn points.

It has basically turned in to this.

 

[lechien]

I thought I head Gray Maynar said that his strategy was getting Kenny to chase him for 4 minutes and use his 1-2 and then shoot for tkd on the last minute.

 

[crochuck]

I think another big problem with it is that takedowns are basically free points. If someone shoots for a takedown but gets its stuffed up against the cage they almost always hold on to the leg for like 30 seconds and OH LOOK HES CONTROLLING THE ACTION MORE POINTS FOR HIM!!

 

[nni]

Same way a nice flurry of power shots like a 4 punch combo or something will? I mean if the fight is very close than something major like a takedown or a nice combo of punches landed can steal a round.

So you compared a flurry of 4 power shots to one take down? Let's see:
- The objective of an MMA fight is to finish an opponent either through strikes or a submission.
- Strikes are a direct way of inflicting damage, whereas a takedown is a way of getting the fight to where you want. Once you get the takedown, you can start working for either submissions or ground and pound.
- A takedown at the end of a round doesn't put you any closer to finishing the fight, because you have no time to work for anything on the ground.

Personally, if a round is too close to call until the last 15 seconds, a takedown does not change that (unless it's followed by ground and pound or advancement of position). Those rounds should be 10-10.

 

[Andyrimm]

I think what we're kind of missing here is that the whole 'imposing your will/octagon control' aspect is a major part of scoring. At least that's how they explain their foggy scoring system before every event broadcast. If you're a grappler and you don't mind being on your back, that doesn't matter. The judges can't read your mind to know that you're ok with the takedown. If you wanted to be on your back, pull guard (a mostly foolish move in mma).

Personally, I agree with last ditch effort takedowns winning a close round. Keep in mind though what some people in here have already said, that it can (or more probably should) win a CLOSE round. I'm not sure that in recent memory I've been watching the closing 30 seconds of a round and a last second takedown gave the one who was losing the round the nod. They've all been very close as far as I remember, if not i'd be interested to hear arguments?

Also, as grapplers (I assume we all practice in here) I think some of you are losing sight on how really god damn hard it is to take another human being who doesn't want to be put on his back and put him on his back. Regardless of whether you do anything with it or not, it's a hard thing to do, especially against most professionals in the sport now'a'days, so give the guy points for it. The act of putting the fight where you want it to be also coincides with the scoring rules of 'octagon control.'

This is just my interpretation though. I mean, on my scorecards I also grant the opponent points for takedown defense, considering he not only reversed or stifled his opponents main choice of offense at the moment, but also kept the fight where he wanted it, i.e. imposition of will.

 

[jasond]

It's a shame how ignorant a lot of judges are. A couple of years ago, I was a judge for a small MMA org in our area. In one of the few fights to go to our decision, Fighter A completely dominated the first two rounds. Not worth a 10-8, but no doubt was the winner 10-9 on all 3 cards for both round 1 and 2. He landed more strikes (2 to 1), landed the harder strikes, and got at least one takedown in both rounds, but was not taken down by his opponent in either.

Well, at the start of the 3rd round, Fighter B gets an early takedown. He threw a total of 5 punches; all very light shots to Fighter A's body. Fighter B spent almost the entire round just trying to stifle Fighter A hip movement and keep him on the ground.

This entire time, Fighter A was punching him in the head, heel-kicking him in the legs, etc all from his guard. Despite being on the bottom, Fighter A was very active, landed a ton of strikes (something like 41 to Fighter B's 5), and even busted Fighter B's nose in the process.

Third round goes to Fighter A, clearly right? Not on the other two judge's cards. They both gave the round to Fighter B because "he was on top the whole time". Fighter A still won: 30-27, 29-28, and 29-28; but it was clear that the other judges (neither of whom train or fight) did not understand what was going on in the cage.

 

[Ninja This]

What about slams or hard takedowns?

 

[nni]

What about slams or hard takedowns?

I'd say worth the same as a power strike (or whatever the term is).

 

[jasond]

I'd say worth the same as a power strike (or whatever the term is).

Agreed, especially when you consider the number of impressive KOs that have come from slams and hard takedowns.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

It's a shame how ignorant a lot of judges are. A couple of years ago, I was a judge for a small MMA org in our area. In one of the few fights to go to our decision, Fighter A completely dominated the first two rounds. Not worth a 10-8, but no doubt was the winner 10-9 on all 3 cards for both round 1 and 2. He landed more strikes (2 to 1), landed the harder strikes, and got at least one takedown in both rounds, but was not taken down by his opponent in either.

Well, at the start of the 3rd round, Fighter B gets an early takedown. He threw a total of 5 punches; all very light shots to Fighter A's body. Fighter B spent almost the entire round just trying to stifle Fighter A hip movement and keep him on the ground.

This entire time, Fighter A was punching him in the head, heel-kicking him in the legs, etc all from his guard. Despite being on the bottom, Fighter A was very active, landed a ton of strikes (something like 41 to Fighter B's 5), and even busted Fighter B's nose in the process.

Third round goes to Fighter A, clearly right? Not on the other two judge's cards. They both gave the round to Fighter B because "he was on top the whole time". Fighter A still won: 30-27, 29-28, and 29-28; but it was clear that the other judges (neither of whom train or fight) did not understand what was going on in the cage.

this very much sounds like Mo vs Mousasi... (by the way I have Mo winning because I was so disapoint of Mousasis willing to win, he looked like he didnt care)

 

[Jim J]

Personally, if a round is too close to call until the last 15 seconds, a takedown does not change that (unless it's followed by ground and pound or advancement of position). Those rounds should be 10-10.

Why should advancing position score but not a takedown? Both are just forms of control. Neither inflict damage, only set you up in an advantageous position.

I personally think both should score.

 

[CyberFreq]

The 'problem' with takedowns late-round have all been discussed. They are fresh in the judges mind, and with the current mindset of on top = winning, Fighter A being on top when the round ends means, for these guppy-minded judges at least, that Fighter A won the round. While I have no problem with takedowns scoring points, they should still be weighed with the other 4.5 minutes of the round as opposed to the last half-minute when the takedown was scored.

Also, for the guy who's all "What if I WANT him on top?" The fact still is that top guard is more recognized as a dominant position, and unless you are just fantastic from guard, you're considered to be losing. Also, fists and elbows will be coming your way. Along with 170+ pounds of pure heavy.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

good point. I always hear the corner hitting the floor at the 10 seconds bell.

Its actually the commissioned time keeper who hits the floor/table loudly so that both fighters and ref know there is 10 secs left.

Do the judges look at the punches and score them for the hits or just the attempt?

Actually both to be honest. You are judged on "effective striking", but also on "octagon control". So effective striking would be getting points for landing punches, but "octagon control" could be scored for you if you were using the jab (not always landing) to keep a wrestler out of range to shoot.

 

[Title Fight Productions]

So you compared a flurry of 4 power shots to one take down? Let's see:

I did not compare them as this is equal to that smart guy, i just said that a takedown can win a close round just like a flurry of punches can.

- The objective of an MMA fight is to finish an opponent either through strikes or a submission.

Says who? That may have been how it was before time limits and judges. See the object of a modern MMA fight is to win the fight, see there are other ways to do this than "finishing your opponent", ya dig?

- Strikes are a direct way of inflicting damage, whereas a takedown is a way of
getting the fight to where you want. Once you get the takedown, you can start working for either submissions or ground and pound.
- A takedown at the end of a round doesn't put you any closer to finishing the fight, because you have no time to work for anything on the ground.

See above.

Personally, if a round is too close to call until the last 15 seconds, a takedown does not change that (unless it's followed by ground and pound or advancement of position). Those rounds should be 10-10

Could be, depends on the judge i guess. If a fight is close and someone gets a takedown late in the round than i would give him points for that. You are "personally" not judging by the set specifications that sanctioned judges have to, i think that is the difference here.

 

[Quoth]

read my post, what about if having the guy on top of me is what I want???? ever heard about bjj???

thats my point in most of these arguements, I fight better off my back then any other place and thats led me to LET people take me down before but when I do everyone screams "oh he took you down with ease, he must be better" its complete bull being on your back DOES NOT mean your losing the fight.

(unless your getting your face smashed in etc)