How do you see Jones vs. DC going?

[devante]

Not too surprised at the outcome, even though I wanted DC to win - my mind was telling me Jones would probably take it. Although I have to say it was an extremely competitive fight between the two.

I had Cormier taking round 1, 2 & 3 tbh - although I think the better fighter won. I think Cormier had the right kind of approach, the first two rounds were a real eye opener - I feel as though if Cormier was able to have maintained that intensity, he might have pulled through and won. If anyone watched Jones carefully at the end of each of two first rounds, after he sat back on his stool - there was a bit of concealed panic in his corner and Jones himself looked mentally debilitated, like he couldn't believe what was happening.

Jones wasn't able to establish his range/reach throughout (very few times he established it but wasn't able to maintain it) and in many cases ended up fighting at Cormier's range whether willingly or because of Cormier's constant pressure. Jones managed to really mix up his shots well and those elbows/takedown defence was on point - although I'd say that his kicking game went out of the window, with the exception of 1 or 2 good knees/body kicks and the occasional oblique kick - much of it was sloppy or parried by Cormier.

I think what turned the tide was Cormier gas tank - he simply ran out of energy after the third round, very little output striking wise thereon and didn't even have enough left in him to defend the subsequent takedowns. He looked very exhausted - I honestly didn't realise his cardio was as bad as that - I mean after the third round his corner had to repeatedly tell him to pick his head up & wake up.

I think that Cormier's lack of energy is what helped Jones to re-establish control for the rest of the fight and led him on course to the UD - tbh I was expecting a split decision, it was much closer than people thought, don't think that was a UD at all.

It's a shame because I think if Cormier had a better gas tank/cardio - he might have actually pulled through and won, in fact if he had maintained the intensity/output of the early rounds - I'm pretty confident he could have done it.

But I think this along with the Gustafson fight showed a very vulnerable side of Jones - there were times in there he looked very vulnerable - I think it might only be a matter of time till we see him lose that belt for the first time.





On another note - did anyone watch Horiguchi's fight?

That fight was technical karate at it's finest in MMA (excluding Machida) - very few technical karateka of that calibre/ability in MMA atm. Everything about his stand-up screamed karate - the beautifully timed kizami zuki which he landed quite a few times was like a piston, the kizami/gyaku tsuki combo was on point as well. Definitely going to do a write up on that dude.

Agree...Jones was able to hold up...personally I think Cormier cardio was a result of the toughness of the fight..usually he gets guys in those positions and controls them...out works them..runs away with the fight.

silva mir Barnett nelson Cummins henderson didn't have the ability skills dimensions to make him have to work in those areas...he had his way with each and every one of them. He made it tough on jones...but he couldn't maintain the pace activity FIGHTING THE FIGHT HE WANTED...

he eliminated the kicks...got inside on jones and couldn't do what he did in every other fight which was take over...he did great work...but it impacted him as much as it did jones...it was a grinding up physical fight and cormier couldn't maintain the pace mental or physical to win.

Jones gutted through and pulled away late...gus glover dc have taken things away from jones..landed on jones and got fights where they wanted; each guy did good early..did good in spots. None we free able to maintain it over five or do enough to finish in the moment where they did their best work.


As for the second point..that dude is a beast and when I gave him props in his first few fights, guys told me how hit table he was and predictable; once again high level karate shows its worth and Noone can downplay how much of his success is based on his karate skills.

 

[Soul Rebel 2]

I think that all the criticism aimed at DC's gas tank, while somewhat warranted, does a disservice to JJ's commitment to body work.

 

[devante]

I think that all the criticism aimed at DC's gas tank, while somewhat warranted, does a disservice to JJ's commitment to body work.

qft

 

[JayElectra]

I don't really agree with the whole Cormier broke narrative though. I think what he said after the fight needs to be taken with a grain of salt. He never gave up, he never stopped trying to fight through it. I think it was an endurance problem more than a mental one, and even then it's not like he got dominated in the last two rounds like people are saying. He got controlled a lot and taken down (but not held down) in the fourth, then was controlled some but also had control and hit a big lift in the fifth. There wasn't any quit in DC.

And of course after the fight he felt dejected. He was exhausted, he just put a ton of effort into something and failed. Plus he didn't have success where he thought he would. But he fought a great fight, pushed to the end, showed championship heart, skill, determination and discipline. I believe in a rematch if he put a little more work into hitting Jones to the body, kicking his legs etc. then he could have a great shot at winning. Jones was tired too, just not as tired. Also Cormier now knows how Jones works in the clinch with all that handfighting. What really lost Cormier the fight was getting positioned against the cage. That's when Jones pulled ahead in round 4 and convinced the judges to give him round 5.

Better cage awareness, less head-hunting, sharpening of his hand fighting skills and Cormier could win.

Very good post. Leading up to the fight I was more or less convinced that the only way Jones would win was by outfighting and outlasting him on the inside. I didn't think he had the skillset (footwork and jab) to prevent a fight on the inside against a quick pressure fighter with a half decent jab like Cormier. What did surprise me was Jones' wrestling and general physical strength. I never thought Cormier was going to dominate Jones in the grappling as many seemed to, but I thought he'd land his takedowns here and there, and I really didn't see it likely that Cormier would be taken down outside of maybe a caught kick (which is what happened in the first).

The idea that Jones won this fight easily is genuinely bizarre, though. 4 of the 5 rounds in the fight were very close. The only round that was clearly Jones' didn't involve hardly any genuine damage done, either, and neither fighter had the energy to muster any significant offense in the 5th round. If Cormier were to focus more using his wrestling more defensively and as a means to enable more striking instead of as an end (as in don't waste tons of energy on pursuing takedowns that aren't coming) and fight more strategically (with a mind to hustle rounds), he could certainly win a rematch. The big problem with that is that if Cormier does get in position for a rematch, he'll be at least a year older and a fighter's stamina is perhaps the attribute most significantly impacted by aging.

 

[a guy]

Very good post. Leading up to the fight I was more or less convinced that the only way Jones would win was by outfighting and outlasting him on the inside. I didn't think he had the skillset (footwork and jab) to prevent a fight on the inside against a quick pressure fighter with a half decent jab like Cormier. What did surprise me was Jones' wrestling and general physical strength. I never thought Cormier was going to dominate Jones in the grappling as many seemed to, but I thought he'd land his takedowns here and there, and I really didn't see it likely that Cormier would be taken down outside of maybe a caught kick (which is what happened in the first).

The idea that Jones won this fight easily is genuinely bizarre, though. 4 of the 5 rounds in the fight were very close. The only round that was clearly Jones' didn't involve hardly any genuine damage done, either, and neither fighter had the energy to muster any significant offense in the 5th round. If Cormier were to focus more using his wrestling more defensively and as a means to enable more striking instead of as an end (as in don't waste tons of energy on pursuing takedowns that aren't coming) and fight more strategically (with a mind to hustle rounds), he could certainly win a rematch. The big problem with that is that if Cormier does get in position for a rematch, he'll be at least a year older and a fighter's stamina is perhaps the attribute most significantly impacted by aging.

Agreed. What impressed me most about Jones' performance was his skill rather than strength in the clinch. Normally, if Cormier gets an underhook then you're screwed. But Jones was working for russians, cranking his overhooks, fighting for head position and circling very effectively. He kept Cormier's hands tied up and refused to be dominated.

Even when he got Cormier down, it was because he managed to get Cormier pinned against the cage where he could keep Cormier upright then pull his legs out from under him. And even then, Cormier got up pretty easily despite being "broken".

It's really hard to scroll through the heavies right now, I have no idea how anyone honestly thinks the fight was easy. Even thinking it was a clear win for Jones doesn't mean it was easy, dominant or all that definitive in deciding who's the better fighter. a rematch could go either way, though as you say the older Cormier gets the worse his chances are.

 

[Ayin]

It's really hard to scroll through the heavies right now, I have no idea how anyone honestly thinks the fight was easy.

I have no idea how people can be the way they are in the UFC section at any point. People there with join dates 4+ years old who still clearly have no technical knowledge of the sport being jerks to whitebelts with join dates that are a few months old who are clearly just old posters or alt accounts and there to make everything worse for everyone... If you ever find your opinion of MMA fans to have risen to high, spend some time there to bring it back to reality.

 

[a guy]

I have no idea how people can be the way they are in the UFC section at any point. People there with join dates 4+ years old who still clearly have no technical knowledge of the sport being jerks to whitebelts with join dates that are a few months old who are clearly just old posters or alt accounts and there to make everything worse for everyone... If you ever find your opinion of MMA fans to have risen to high, spend some time there to bring it back to reality.

Lol its true. I stay away from there except for right after fight cards, and I'm disappointed every time. I end up sticking around just trying to find any reasonable, sane opinions.

 

[DoctorTaco]

agree one hundred percent, cormier built off or what glover had did; more importantly he did a better job w/it in regards to offense, consistency and control...


daniel did alot of good things and i think it was close....

my point was i have seen jones get tired (it happened v gus and v bonnar), i seen someone get inside on jone (glover) i seen jones get hit w/big shot (evans), i seen jones get taken down (gus), i seen what happens when jones has to work for takedowns (gus), i seen what happens when he has to work to land strikes and gets countered (machida),i seen what happens when he is close to being finished (belfort),
i have seen jones when kicks are taken away (glover), i seen jones have to def multiple takedowns, etc etc

so none of that sh*t surprised me, i knew jones was beatable; but i also knew mentally he would push through, its never as easy as taking one thing away, putting him in a bad spot, landing some shots, or him getting tired.

i wasn't so much concerned w/cormier tech, so much as his ability to stay in it EVEN when its not working as well or the guy he is fighting is coming back at him; would he stand up mentally/physically when he couldnt get takedowns (at will), when he couldn't control a guy completely, when he got taken down, when he took hard shots, when he was in bad positions.

he couldn't ....if cormier would have dropped jones...ragdolled him....due what weidman did to anderson or tj did to renan; that would have shocked me... I saw jones do what noone has EVER done to dc in two weight classes; and i saw cormier doing things he never did...slowing down...showing frustration...getting hurt.. not get take downs...not have complete/dominating control..not breaking guys. An when that happened he couldn't fight through it... imo.

i believe it was close...i just believe that when jones asked the tough questions dc had no real answers.... Technical answers yes..but often time when talking tech/strateg, we forget a fight is still a fight and there is something else to it, in that aspect jones has it all over cormier and that was the diff.

that was my biggest thing..my biggest concern; as much talent as he has, he hasn't been in tough and i had no idea what would happen when it gets tough. Daniel didn't either and he admitted as much, once i started taking punishment it changed things..

Everyone is speaking technique, i get that; but noone addressed the concept/idea of not being tested and how he responded when he was. I didn't know how he would respond; i know he had the coaching and tech and ability, i didn't know if he had it in him when he faced adversity to win THE BIG FIGHT. He never did it in wrestling.. and hasn't done it in mma. He wasn't used to people making him work, and i felt the first time he had to work hard, make adj, take punishment; he wouldn't win, and he didnt...imo


SIDENOTE- just to be clear i am not arguing with you or insinuating you don't know what your talking about; or anyone else to be clear, just stating the reasoning behind my opinion before or after the fight. You know your stuff...i just disagree on this..

It makes me wonder if DC would of done better if he would of had a loss or two on his record before the jones fight.

 

[devante]

It makes me wonder if DC would of done better if he would of had a loss or two on his record before the jones fight.

May have helped...or at least faced a guy who had the skill ability or experience to test him in areas if not as a whole... No one he faced gave him any sort of preparation for this type of fight or this type of opponent; Mir Nelson Silva barnett, all skilled all tough all past their prime..all fairly one dimensional...and hendo at this point is name..cummins hadn't fought in almost a year and hadn't been active and hadn't been at this level.

Cormier facing a Johnson a Davis a texeira a Evans a Gus..a bader; someone who was in his prime someone who had shown he was competitive..someone who could challenge DC in one or more areas. But he didn't face those guys ...he didn't deal with adversity...he didn't face guys who could test or make him work and it showed.

He had to work for takedowns...had to work to control in the clinch...work to land punches..take punsihment...

He wasn't prepared for that and he said as much. He said I started taking punishment and it effected me... He was used to doing whatever he wanted and when he couldn't he lost... He didn't quit or break....but it my opinion he lost.

Adversity or a loss would have helped him..he will prob improve I don't know if at his age anything he does will be enough..esp in regards to cardio...

 

[wang xiangzhai]

It was almost mission imposible for a wrestler like DC, with little experience in the stand-up game, to come and beat a pure mma-breed prodigy like Bones - and you could see in every little detail - like wrist control - that being trained in MMA since the very begining is a great advantage for the new generations...

In fact, all things considered, he did well, hell, a lot better than well. He connected his jab, a few good uppercuts, even some hook here and there but unfortunately DC hasnt got the stance nor the footwork nor the relaxation to do that for five rounds in a war of atrition. its just like the first time you try, say, snowboard or motocross and after one hour you are so exhausted you cant even walk and you sit down in the bar terrace and watch the little kids go at it for hours on end. They are just used to it and make a minimal effort to "stand up" on the board/bike while you use a lot of unnecesary tension and burn your muscles in the process.

His best chance was to somehow hurt Jones in the clinch hard enough to create a pause so he could follow through - and in the first two rounds i wanted to believe one of those uppercuts was gonna do the trick but it seems that on top of everything that dude Jones has a good chin too and he rarely loses his focus even deep down in the fight.

Dont know, may be someone like Rumble, with better footwork and longer range can break it, other than that i dont see Bones losing in the near future.

 

[JayElectra]

Agreed. What impressed me most about Jones' performance was his skill rather than strength in the clinch. Normally, if Cormier gets an underhook then you're screwed. But Jones was working for russians, cranking his overhooks, fighting for head position and circling very effectively. He kept Cormier's hands tied up and refused to be dominated.

Even when he got Cormier down, it was because he managed to get Cormier pinned against the cage where he could keep Cormier upright then pull his legs out from under him. And even then, Cormier got up pretty easily despite being "broken".

It's really hard to scroll through the heavies right now, I have no idea how anyone honestly thinks the fight was easy. Even thinking it was a clear win for Jones doesn't mean it was easy, dominant or all that definitive in deciding who's the better fighter. a rematch could go either way, though as you say the older Cormier gets the worse his chances are.

lol, yes it is. I have stayed away from the heavies more for the last little while with the exception of this fight week and the lead up to the fight. It's delusion all over the place with some saying it was easy work for Jones and others doing everything they can to take away credit from Jones. It's not about what actually happened in the fight for most of them in there, it's about twisting the fight in order to serve their pre-conceived notion about Jones (either negative or positive). I'll also say that the amount of bandwagon Cormier fans who jumped off as soon as he wasn't tossing Jones around is both funny and a tad irritating.

 

[a guy]

lol, yes it is. I have stayed away from the heavies more for the last little while with the exception of this fight week and the lead up to the fight. It's delusion all over the place with some saying it was easy work for Jones and others doing everything they can to take away credit from Jones. It's not about what actually happened in the fight for most of them in there, it's about twisting the fight in order to serve their pre-conceived notion about Jones (either negative or positive). I'll also say that the amount of bandwagon Cormier fans who jumped off as soon as he wasn't tossing Jones around is both funny and a tad irritating.

Tell me about it man. I know we've talked before about Cormier a little in the past, and I don't see how anyone can be anything but impressed with him. I thought he did awesome, he made me even more of a fan.

 

[JayElectra]

Tell me about it man. I know we've talked before about Cormier a little in the past, and I don't see how anyone can be anything but impressed with him. I thought he did awesome, he made me even more of a fan.

I was a bit disappointed in him slowing down so much, but the fight over the first three rounds was extremely tiring so I can't really blame him. He came in and fought hard if not a little unintelligent in spots. This really was his first step up against an opponent who he couldn't beat easily. The Barnett fight wasn't a cake walk, but Barnett couldn't touch him on the feet for the most part, and Cormier was simply too good of a wrestler for Barnett to get top position.

Considering this was Cormier's first real fight where he had to dig deep, I don't think he gave a poor account of himself. Even when Jones has faced some adversity in the past, he has always outlasted his opponent and put beatings on them late in the fight, particularly the 5th round. He couldn't do much of anything to Cormier in the 5th round, though (which makes the whole "broken" narrative absurd given Jones' history). It's a bit of a shame Cormier didn't come into the sport at a younger age. Both him and Jon have been in the sport for a very similar amount of time. Probably the biggest difference is one fighter is right in the middle of their athletic prime, and the other is not. They're similarly remarkable talents in the sport as far as I'm concerned. Jones outhustled him, though, and should get all the credit in the world for doing so.

 

[shpboris]

Yea to some extent, but Cormier was slipping his jab when he tried to throw it. It can't be just a jab, there has to be something he can put behind his jab if he wants to keep guys out of the pocket without clinching them. But his clinch game is so good he doesn't have to worry too much about it.

That's what makes Gus his biggest challenge. Gus doesn't have to work so hard to get inside, plus he can slip Jones jab and set his punches up off his own jab very well. Gus is strong enough to hang with Jones in the clinch, but he doesn't have to get close enough where he'll be forced to spend most of the fight there like Cormier and Glover were. If he works on his kick defense, I really think he beats Jones. He got hit by too many left kicks to the body and those are what cost him the fight, even before the elbow.

BTW, Gus-Cormier would be very interesting to see. My feeling is that Cormier would have much harder time to close the distance on Gus. Gus have better jab overall and much better lateral movement than Jones and IMO those are exactly the tools that Jones lacked in order to keep Cormier at distance.

 

[a guy]

I was a bit disappointed in him slowing down so much, but the fight over the first three rounds was extremely tiring so I can't really blame him. He came in and fought hard if not a little unintelligent in spots. This really was his first step up against an opponent who he couldn't beat easily. The Barnett fight wasn't a cake walk, but Barnett couldn't touch him on the feet for the most part, and Cormier was simply too good of a wrestler for Barnett to get top position.

Considering this was Cormier's first real fight where he had to dig deep, I don't think he gave a poor account of himself. Even when Jones has faced some adversity in the past, he has always outlasted his opponent and put beatings on them late in the fight, particularly the 5th round. He couldn't do much of anything to Cormier in the 5th round, though (which makes the whole "broken" narrative absurd given Jones' history). It's a bit of a shame Cormier didn't come into the sport at a younger age. Both him and Jon have been in the sport for a very similar amount of time. Probably the biggest difference is one fighter is right in the middle of their athletic prime, and the other is not. They're similarly remarkable talents in the sport as far as I'm concerned. Jones outhustled him, though, and should get all the credit in the world for doing so.

Yea it really is a shame he came in so late. Cormier's obviously on his level and able to hang with him, he just isn't as young and that makes a rivalry favor Jones. Hopefully Cormier learns from the experience and comes back stronger.

 

[a guy]

BTW, Gus-Cormier would be very interesting to see. My feeling is that Cormier would have much harder time to close the distance on Gus. Gus have better jab overall and much better lateral movement than Jones and IMO those are exactly the tools that Jones lacked in order to keep Cormier at distance.

Yea that fight would be awesome. I think it's tougher for Cormier than the Jones fight too. Gus has both the jabs and the uppercuts to make it a tough night for Cormier. That would be a good test of Gus' wrestling though, if Cormier can ever get into position.

 

[aries]

I really thought Cormier was going to punish and dominate JBJ's. I expected most of the fight to look like Round 2 but then the key factor hit, Cormier gassed. Jones looked shattered coming out to Round 3 but he was the one that turned on the afterburners and Cormier's output plumetted.

The body shots were contributory and the credit has to go to Jones who was targeting DC's body really well for that but I just feel that Cormier had everything to beat Jones except being able to maintain that pace that he showed in round 2. That's what makes someone like Cain so good, he can maintain that sort of pace. Unfortunately I see nothing now for Cormier in terms of beating Jones because the key element is the one thing that he can't just work on like he could a tactical element and is likely at his age will just decline his cardio.

Jones was strong enough, good enough and fit enough to hang with Cormier in the wrestling department when Cormier wasn't tired. And then when Cormier got tired he took over.

Although I was desperately rooting for DC I don't agree with the scoring. I only gave DC round 2.

 

[Helmut Zemo]

Does anyone have any gifs of the in-fighting from the fight (particularly from Cormier in the 2nd and 3rd rounds)?

 

[Paradigm]

finally watched the fight last night...JBJ did enough to win. was impressed that he was able to impose his will in that round (4th?) and takedown DC 3 times.

it did seem a bit weird to me when Jones was looking away from Cormier a few times (not during striking exchanges)...it didnt look like he was looking towards his corner but it wasnt exactly this either:

yeah call me crazy but I'd rather get footkicked on the shin than hit in the head by a 4 ounce glove, which cormier up until the 4th round was doing more than jones imo.I don't think the judges know striking for shit. Its not the first time I've seen judges ignore the jab like in jones vs gus. The only way jones won those fights is if you count checked kicks.

yeah, but this is an MMA fight, not a boxing/KB/MT fight. ruleset changes shit.

 

[WillW]

Good to see some educated opinions.

What do you think DC should do differently if they rematch.
What should Jones do differently?

Also what do you guys think about the Coke Ordeal.