How do you see Jones vs. DC going?

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by WillW, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. WillW

    WillW Blue Belt

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    Lets here what you guys have to say. I cant take the regular forum anymore. too many whining and not enough educated opinions.
     
  2. shpboris

    shpboris Blue Belt

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    Will root for DC - still remember him from the days, when he competed in freestyle wrestling. Thought he wouldn't make a good MMA fighter. Was very surprised to see that he developed solid standup game. And his wrestling looks better in MMA than it was in pure wrestling ))

    Anyway - IMO, Jones wins by UD. DC has the tools to win - good jab to close the distance, combinations when in mid range, good wrestling with TD's from clinch and from distance. Also he is fast and strong. But I think Jones will control DC from from the outside mostly with his kicks and punches and will defend takedowns.
     
  3. PivotPunch

    PivotPunch Red Belt

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    DC coming out smoking and poressuring Jones but as the fight goes on he will slow down and Jones will be able to keep range with kicks and starts to land elbows as Cormier tires and he will win one way or the other.
    Beside size Jones is a good kicker and Cormier ahs trouble with kicks and Jones has elbows at short range and kicks from long range. He has also proven stamina over 5 rounds even in wars Cormeir doesn't have bad stamina but onyl went 5 rounds once and not in the kind of fight Jones had with Gus.
    Jones has also an iron jaw so even if eh gets hit he should be fine as long as it's only single shots
     
  4. IndyCovaHart

    IndyCovaHart Gold Belt

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    Ooh a stand-up forum analysis of this question!!!
     
  5. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    Rooting for Cormier, but in my opinion to win the fight he'll have to show things that he's never shown before. It's usually not a good idea to count on that happening.

    Everyone knows the first issue with Jones is range. To get close, you must get past the kicks. Unfortunately, Cormier has never been one to catch or counter kicks. He usually just steps back and resets when guys try to kick at him. Against Jones, that's as good as agreeing to hope for a decision loss. Even worse, as we saw against Glover (who actually did an amazing job shutting down Jones' kicks in the first two rounds), Jones learned how to jab and is willing to mix in head-snapping jabs with his hand fighting and eye poking. So not only will Cormier need to have developed an answer for those kicks, he'll have to simultaneously be able to get past that jab.

    The good news on that front is that Glover did have success when he got in the pocket...until Jones went all the way in and beat him up on the inside. A lot of that had to do with Glover's complete lack of a jab. He's all power shots once he thinks he can reach, so it was easy for Jones to get inside on him without taking damage or being forced to stand in that critical distance for too long. Cormier does have the jab to do that, which gives him an infinitely better chance at forcing exchanges provided he can get past the legs.

    Even if Cormier can do that though, how consistently can he do it? The second biggest issue with Jones is that he's an attrition based fighter. Disregarding huge mismatches like the Sonnen fight, he isn't extremely dangerous until he's worn you down. He doesn't have huge power. He only hurts guys with one shot when it's something like a spinning elbow that they didn't see. But, he's very active targeting the body and legs. No one looks good in the last two rounds against Jones. If their body isn't failing them, their mind is. Do I think Cormier will break mentally? No. However, I'm very worried that he'll get worn down. Even if he can produce some big moments early, will he be able to either finish Jones or continue to produce them as the fight wears on? No one so far has been able to.

    The good news is I highly doubt Jones will have an advantage on the inside. A lot of his work with his elbows and clinch entries can be shut down just by a good jab like Cormier's. And once he's in the clinch, Cormier is constantly fighting for head position, pushing guys against the cage or tossing them. I believe his clinch game will be stronger than ever, certainly better than anyone Jones has fought. That gives him the best chance (besides Gus) to work his boxing.

    Cormier has been talking about taking Jones to deep water and drowning him. That's interesting because it's what Jones does too. The key question is if Cormier can deal with the range in a way that will let him implement that strategy. Most Jones opponents drop their output significantly against him. Assuming he does have the mentality to keep pushing that hard, he's also gonna need the technical tools to keep up that pace.
     
  6. Frode Falch

    Frode Falch Gold Belt Professional Fighter

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    that AKA cain style gameplan wont work againt Jon Jones.
     
  7. FrontNakedChoke

    FrontNakedChoke ____________________

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    I believe Jones will use a lot of angles and kicks against DC. Keeping him in a comfortable range, picking him apart until eventually DC doesn't have it anymore. Jones is excellent and patiently, methodically, breaking down his opponents. I see him utilizing a wide variety of techniques and being the more versatile fighter tonight.

    To me, that will be the difference maker.
     
  8. Frode Falch

    Frode Falch Gold Belt Professional Fighter

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    I agree. But i will be rooting for DC
     
  9. Minowafanatic

    Minowafanatic Black Belt

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    dont feel that DC will get inside and get past the kicks, and will be picked apart and either get stopped late or lose the UD
     
  10. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    Great assessment....

    too many unanswered questions about cormier..how does he fare against a young guy..we don't know...how does he do against a multifaceted guy ...we don't know....how does he do in a competitive fight...we don't know...how does he react when he can't completely control or figure a guy out...we don't know. Shit we don't even know how he does against a top flight lhw...cause he hasn't fought one at all.

    essentially cormier is gonna try to do the same thing everyone tries to do against jones...what Jones is trying to do to cormier Noone else has or will try to do to him. Hard for cormier to prepare for.. Jones issue is if Daniel can do it better than everyone else who has attempted to do it.

    the only thing we know about cormier is that when he has been in the biggest spots against the very best HE HAS LOST. Cormier has been better than the rest...but not the very best...

    not saying he can't win...because he can...but as u said him winning requires him doing things he hasn't done in mma much less wrestling..and it's risky to bet on a guy doing shit he never has done before.
     
  11. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    Yea but in Cormier's favor is how young he is in the sport. 35 isn't young, but he's only been fighting since 2009. He actually started more than a year after Jon. That means he's still learning, especially when it comes to striking. It isn't impossible for him to show new tricks and certainly isn't unreasonable to hope he will--it just isn't necessarily smart to bet on it.

    My post was hard on Cormier, but mostly based on the known vs unknown factor. I absolutely believe Cormier is athletic enough, smart enough, skilled enough and disciplined enough to be a huge threat to Jones if he has made those changes. He could come out with smart lateral movement, an answer for the kicks, the ability to find his distance with his jab, etc. But there's no guaranttee that he will, so even though I'm rooting for him and I wanna pick him, it's hard for me to rationally say he's more likely to win.
     
  12. WillW

    WillW Blue Belt

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    DC has a lot of distance to close. I wonder how his wrestling will be against Jones
     
  13. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    I don't care who you are, If Cormier secures one of your legs then you're catching a flight. His top control is good too, better than Jones' for sure.
     
  14. WillW

    WillW Blue Belt

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    Yep, he rag-dolls guys around like its nothing. I just worry about the kicks and range Jones presents and also those pokes':icon_neut

    Gus was having some good success against Jones until later in the fight. he used good lateral movement, in and out movement, good feints and went to body and head to really fluster Jones. DC should have studied that fight to death and try to replicate some of it.
     
  15. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    I tried to make a post to explain that Daniel can win...with his physical skills...competitiveness wrestling and boxing; he is a live dog.

    But as you said for him to win he has to do things we haven't seen...more importantly he is gonna have to do them against a guy who isn't tragically flawed like Roy nelson...frank mir...Dan henderson and Bigfoot silva are...

    these guys essentially had one way to win...one approach...Jones has many ways and has won in many ways...gnp...submissions striking..etc IN Fact I think it helps Jones in that cormier is gonna do what almost every single guy who has faced Jones has tried to do...he will just try to do it at a higher level... Noone who has fought cormier approached him the way Jones will... not to mention none of the guys cormier has beat were upper echelon heavyweights or lhw; I know what Jones does against world class guys...I know what he does when he gets hit hard..I know what he does when a guy makes him work..I know what happens when he is losing a fight. I know none of these things about cormier...the only thing I know is he has better wrestling better athleticism and that he hasn't ever closed the show when facing the very best.

    this isn't Barao vs dillashaw I saw that coming miles away...Barao had was a a too many holes and dillashaw had shown too much over a 5-6 fight time; Jones has shown holes, but not holes that cormier has shown to be able to exploit.

    I believe Daniel can win...but I just don't think he will...
     
  16. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    I don't agree with 49-46. I gave Cormier at least 2 and 3, possibly 1.

    He did good, he got inside and landed his punches. Jones looked very uncomfortable boxing still, but his clinch game was better than expected. He won it where I least expected. Close as hell though, I thought it was a great fight.
     
  17. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    dc couldn't maintain it for five rounds, he did well in spots; an that wasn't gonna cut it, when he put something on jones...jonest absorbed it..fought back..adjusted and then dismantled dc.

    he gassed...he had the skills and the ability; but couldn't consistently put it together against a guy w/a wide range of skills..and a guy who was proven in tough spites..prove in five rounds...

    jones didn't do whatever he wanted, but he took dc best then pulled away late; dc gassed then got outwrestled and worked over...
     
  18. a guy

    a guy Black Belt

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    I didn't see any dismantling. At Jones' absolute best, he hit a couple tds with a little control and not much else. It was close as hell. Both guys gassed, both guys had success in spots, both guys absorbed what the other guy gave them, adjusted and fought back.

    In my opinion the clear rounds are 2, 4 and 5. Cormier won 2, Jones won 4, 5 was a draw. I'd even give it to Cormier based 100% on his slam if you held a gun to my head. So that leaves 1 and 3 to determine it. Cormier did his best at the ends of both those rounds which complicates scoring. I thought he did enough to get the third, and possibly enough to get the first. That leaves me with 49-47 for Jones at best (if you give him both 1 and 3), but I actually scored it 49-48 or 49-47 DC, but I wasn't sure about scoring r1 a draw or not.

    In any case I don't see a clear winner. It was very competitive.
     
  19. Forever Changes

    Forever Changes Orange Belt

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    yeah call me crazy but I'd rather get footkicked on the shin than hit in the head by a 4 ounce glove, which cormier up until the 4th round was doing more than jones imo.I don't think the judges know striking for shit. Its not the first time I've seen judges ignore the jab like in jones vs gus. The only way jones won those fights is if you count checked kicks.
     
  20. devante

    devante Silver Belt

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    i don't know after seeing dc interview after the fight, i feel even better about what i said prior to the fight; he stated he wasnt used to taking punishment and it took the fight from him and he wasn't aggressive enough, that wasn't by accident.

    i didnt see dc able to do the same sh*t he did to mir...barnett...cummins..henderson.. nelson; he wasn't able to take jones down at will, he didnt dominate the striking, he didn't dominate the clinch, he wasn't able to def (all takedowns).

    jones did what he always does takes guys down...kick guys at range..clinch guys up and work them over to the body; an pull away late in a competitive fight.

    dc looked completely diff from what we had seen of him, he dominated guys; outquicked them out worked them outstruck them outwrestled them, none of that sh*t happened.

    dc was in a tough fight and couldn't maintain the pace...activity or pressure he needed to win, EVEN when jones was fighting at the range dc wanted him to fight in; was it close, sure.. But i have seen jones be in close fights, i have seen him have to adjust, i seen him have to turn it on late; never seen dc have to do any of those things, one guy made him do those things..jones.

    and for all the times dc landed, i felt jones shots did more damage; an after the fight dc admitted jones had him hurt and it impacted how he fought. He said the knees and body punches cut into his workrate and ability to fight his fight, an that fighting in the clinch wore him down.. I.E. i couldn't dominate in the area i expected to and it had a negative effect on me.


    not saying cormier didn't have his moments...he did he couldn't maintain them..and much like gus..he faded in championship rounds..

    i felt the fight was competitive throughout...but that doesn't mean daniel won, not in my eyes; he showed he could do what it took to win, he didnt show he could maintain it
     

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