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How do you know when its time to move on to the next move?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by lakergirl52, Oct 7, 2010.

  1. lakergirl52

    lakergirl52 Yellow Belt

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    I've reevaluated how I've been training and what I'm going to be doing from now on is working on 2-4 specific things when I roll/train. I'm only a 2 month white belt, so I know I have a lot to work on. I'm keeping a list of things, then will be moving on when it's time to move on. But how do you know when it's time for you to move on from focusing on a specific technique or move? Is it when you can hit on someone bigger than you? Hit it on a higher belt? Hit it on a regular training partner on a regular basis?

    For example, I'm working the scissor sweep. I'm just getting started into it and want to keep working it for a while. I was thinking about moving on when I could hit this on a higher belt or someone who was way more advanced than me. Would this be right?
     
  2. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    My first sweep I used all the time was the scissor sweep.

    I was succesfull at it until all my training partners start learning how to counter it.

    then I moved to a modified omplata sweep..then it was the simple hip bump swee.

    At the moment, I am into the sit up guard sweep.

    It is all about how quickly your training partners catch up with your moves then you need to come up with something new.
     
  3. 177ark

    177ark White Belt

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    You don't necessarily have to move on. Keep using it, but learn moves that combo well with what you already have. Your ability to threaten the move you already know makes the next move in the combo much easier to hit. Since you have the scissors sweep, you might learn the reverse scissors sweep in case they counter.
     
  4. lethalazn

    lethalazn Purple Belt

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    preferably behind you, with both hooks sunk in
    For all of 2008 I was fixated with the armdrag from guard and taking the back from guard
    In 2009 I also added the Guillotine
    2010 I haven't added a single thing :)

    There's no set time to move on, but there's always time to improve or find new ways to do the same old thing
     
  5. NovaUniaoWesty

    NovaUniaoWesty Yellow Belt

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    I really don't think this is the way to learn jiu jitsu, it's just way to static of an approach. I'm not saying you should be working on your flying gogoplatas but try to incorporate different moves. Here's why.

    A: Most of Jiu Jitsu is done in transitions. Your odds of forcing a move on anyone, unless they are much smaller or significantly less experienced is pretty small. Just work and take whatever opening is given.

    B: If your plan is to just take 3 moves and work them until you can hit anyone with it, then your jiu jitsu career is going to be pretty short because you can never make the same move work the same way, every single time.

    Above all just love the game, that is hands down the best way to improve is by getting on the mats and just getting that high.
     
  6. blfdgrappler

    blfdgrappler Orange Belt

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    This may be the best advice I have read all week.
     
  7. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green White Belt

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    That's not entirely true, most high level competitors do have a handful of techniques that they hit everyone with. Of course they can also hit the average competitor with any other move they like, but against other high level competitors its the same handful of techniques.

    I'd say the issue is more of timing, 2-months in you should be exposing yourself to a wide variety of things and working on things more basic then techniques, posture and pressure are far more important.

    Once you've accumulated a wide range of techniques and have decent fundamentals, then you start narrowing your scope and developing your own personal "style".
     
  8. MUFC

    MUFC Brown Belt

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    Whenever I get bored of something.
     
  9. eastNYgoon138

    eastNYgoon138 Green Belt

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    I will work the same movement over and over and over until I feel like it has turned into a total knee jerk type reaction. If I have to think about what Im doing, I keep working it out
     
  10. lakergirl52

    lakergirl52 Yellow Belt

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    Right now, I'm more focused on getting the mechanics of a move down. Getting the feel for the move down so that doing it becomes second nature. I want to concentrate on repping a move or two out over the course of a week or to until the mechanics are second nature, and the details just flow.

    My overall concern is, how to tell when it's okay to shift focus to another move? Like being able to hit it on someone (recognizing that they give you the move), when it does become second nature? Being able to do a sweep to the biggest guy in class while drilling it, etc.
     
  11. HomerPlata

    HomerPlata Purple Belt

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    I think you're over-thinking things. Worry less. Enjoy more.

    You know that old phrase "A watched pot never boils"? Okay, first of all, that's bullshit because I've watched plenty of pots boil, but you get the point :icon_chee If you're constantly looking inwards, testing and analysing every minute detail of your progress, it's counter-productive.
     
  12. Bmurph

    Bmurph Yellow Belt

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    I'm about as new as you to BJJ and I'd agree that you're over thinking a bit. My plan for my first 6 months or so is to really just get familiar with it all. Positions, transitions, basic principles like base and posture etc. It's all about survival at this point. I think you'd hinder your overall progress by focusing on specific technique this early on as opposed to just taking it all in. Lots of people don't recommend note taking or specific training like this until you've been around for a bit for that exact reason.
     
  13. HulmeHardy**

    HulmeHardy** Green Belt

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    When im rolling i seem to have favoured the scissor sweep but i have learned other sweeps and whats good about that is you can fake with one of those sweeps and go to your fav sweep, tho with me i find i am picking up shit which we've drilled tho maybe a lil later than i should have - but usually depending on the opponent they usually dictate which sweep imma use - depends on what your BJJ game is - sometimes with certain people i have to become a counter striker so to speak and then with others i can dictate where i want to go - Here ill usually use the scissor sweep get into mount and then head for the s- mount which i love(i couldnt really do much in mount) or the mount where you have a leg under the head (the position from where you can enploy the Gogoplata which i finally achieved)
    I was even able to pull of the triangle that Maia used on Sonnen - Mayne that felt sweet.
     
  14. NovaUniaoWesty

    NovaUniaoWesty Yellow Belt

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    I'm a high level blue belt and nothing is really second nature to me. I'll have a great night where I tap purples (maybe even a brown) and all the techniques I want to work, work. The next nigh a white belt taps me 2x and non of my sweeps or anything work. It's 100% drilling for the rest of your life. No two opponents, no two rolls, no two anything will ever work out the same or 100% the way you want them to.

    Here is what I do:

    I pick...

    4 closed guard sweeps
    4 closed guard passes
    (same for half, open, and a little less on each for butterfly)
    4 escapes from side control, north south, mount and back
    And these submissions: RNC, arm triangle, armbar, kimura, guillotine and kneebar. Then I drill them and figure out how to make them work from any position I need.

    THEN I DRILL, DRILL, DRILL. ROLL, ROLL, ROLL.

    And if I ever run into a situation where none of my mount escapes work I wait, just focus on my defense and simply wait. That is where the majority of success in jiu jitsu is found; capitalizing on your opponents mistakes and in transitions.

    I reiterate. Just love the game, the skill will come in time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2010
  15. lakergirl52

    lakergirl52 Yellow Belt

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    Don't you ever feel thought that is diluting your efforts? I'm the kind of person that likes to do things kind of one at a time. I feel like if I'm going to be just working on a dozen things all at the same time, that is diluting the efforts, where if I can focus on getting the details and mechanics of a move or sweep down, then move on and add something else to my arsenal, that will be more effective for training.

    And trust me, I'm addicted already. I'm just trying to figure out the best way of training new techniques and adding stuff to my game so I can put up a good fight.
     
  16. stile0

    stile0 Purple Belt

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    While I think it's good to concentrate on one move at a time.. I don't think a lot of other white belts focus on the combos as much as they probably could. I used to have the mentality that I'd work the scissor sweep until I could sweep anyone with it. But the simple truth is that there are people out there that I won't be able to get over. Then you realize, "Oh hey, if I kick their leg out and push with my leg in their armpit they go over" and if that doesn't work, then I work the wing sweep.

    What I'm trying to get at is that working one sweep for awhile is good but why stop yourself there? I understand you're only 2 months in and it's good to focus on the basics, but stringing sweeps together is a really important fundamental.

    scissor sweep --fail--> knee kick --fail--> wing sweep

    (I wouldn't advise trying to learn the last two until you have a pretty good base, just an example of a combo that I do)
     
  17. lakergirl52

    lakergirl52 Yellow Belt

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    Never really thought about working combos....mmmm.....*light bulb slowing dimming on*. I mean, I didn't plan on working ONLY one move and was going to attack with ONLY that move till it worked everyone (which is what I think people are thinking...I was just wondering when its okay to shift focus to a new move...)

    I was thinking about moving to like, a mount escape instead of keep working on guard sweeps, but I think setting up that series would be good.
     
  18. NovaUniaoWesty

    NovaUniaoWesty Yellow Belt

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    No I honestly don't. I think that focusing on just one move is counter productive because it limits you to the conditions where that move is sure to be effective.

    I.E. If your trying the flower sweep from closed guard and i have a good base and underhook pass I'll guarantee you that you won't sweep me 90% of the time. However if you can combine that flower sweep with a strong opposite side hip bump sweep BOOM your odds of sweeping me just jumped up to 50/50. And even if you did nail the perfect sweep on me.. you've spent all your time trying that flower sweep you took mount, but oh oh your mount skills are lacking so now I bridge you and you're back to square 1.

    And jiu jitsu isn't an art where moves are intended to be individual. It's compared to chess, each move is done with the intent of opening up 3 other moves, and those 3 will open up ANOTHER 3 etc...etc... until your opponent is overwhelmed.

    And what about the difference in your opponents? I'm a 230lb advanced blue belt, do you really think most people are trying to hip bump me? I throw brown belts back down on the groudn when they try that, but if that brown belt tries a sweet wing sweep they'll probably get it.

    I can't stress enough not to limit yourself.
     
  19. lakergirl52

    lakergirl52 Yellow Belt

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    But what about focusing on one move (or a few) until you get the mechanics down of it? Like instead of doing all the rolling rounds, take one of them with your partner and rep out a move.
    I'm not focusing on one move and that's the only move I'm going to hit you with and thats the only move I'm going to try to work.
    I'm talking about getting the move down, mechanically. Learning how you need to balance an opponent, learning how hard you need to push the knee into the chest; that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. And when you should move on to working a different move. That's what I'm asking.
     
  20. HomerPlata

    HomerPlata Purple Belt

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    I understand your point there, but the advice being given is good advice. Focussing on one move intensively will give you greater rewards more quickly, but I think you'll risk becoming obsessed with that move, beating yourself up when you don't quite pull it off in rolling, etc. I'd say focus on single aspects like you are doing, but be prepared to let go and move on when you can feel yourself becoming obsessed. You can always go back to that move in a couple of weeks or whenever.
     

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