How do you guys feel about this technique being used during rolling?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Tylerlikesmma, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. Tylerlikesmma

    Tylerlikesmma Brown Belt

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    I basically learned this from watching the Rickson Gracie documentary "Choke". It's done from having a guys back & he's tucking his chin, you take the bone of your wrist & lift your opponents chin by applying pressure under their nose. My introduction into grappling was more of a submissions wrestling kind of thing & I was always rolling against much stronger guys than myself, who were trying to maul me most of the time. So when I got into jiu jitsu gym I asked to be briefed about what was okay & I questioned them about this technique & two of the guys said fair game, go for it.

    So when we begin to roll I get paired up with a blue belt. He's an exact match for my body type & he's good. So long story short, I'm on his back & I use this technique & he was a little upset & felt like I was trying to be a dick.

    is there a general consensus on this? do I need to stop using this move?
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  2. HomerPlata

    HomerPlata Purple Belt

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    BJJ = You will be considered a dick
    Luta Livre = No problem
     
  3. BJJ Beginner

    BJJ Beginner Green Belt

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    I don't have a problem with it so long as you aren't doing it as a strike, but most people I know would think it was a dick move to a training partner (fine for a tournament though.)
     
  4. Tylerlikesmma

    Tylerlikesmma Brown Belt

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    the thing is, I wouldn't do if I didn't respect his skill. if it were someone I felt were a noob, or I could dominate easily, I wouldn't do it. I just want good guys to go hard against me & I guess I want to go hard against them
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2013
  5. NoneGiven

    NoneGiven White Belt

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    It's a non-technical response to a non-technical defense. It doesn't utilize leverage in the same sense that most other movements do, as it's predominantly pain compliance.

    However, everyone should have this done to them at least once. When I was a white belt I got a little pissed when a brown belt RNC'd me right over my face as I was using both hands to do something with is feet. His response was "Man, burying your chin like that is not a defense. It requires that the other person be polite for it to work." Same idea here, and one to keep in mind as you train and build habits.
     
  6. virtuoso

    virtuoso Blue Belt

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    I wouldn't see it as a dick move. Although, I must say that I prefer Marcelo's grabbing of the forehead, as I see that more as a leverage technique than a pain technique. Pain can be taken, but it's really hard to stop leverage. Here's a video of him teaching how he finishes his rear naked chokes when the opponent defends.

     
  7. Tylerlikesmma

    Tylerlikesmma Brown Belt

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    excellent point
     
  8. Unr8dBJJ

    Unr8dBJJ Yellow Belt

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    I know the purple belts will do it to me at my gym. They tell me my defense is good enough they have to use it, so it's a compliment I guess. a painful one. But I'll have to try Marcelo Garcia's forehead technique. I've never even thought about doing that.
     
  9. BJJArsenal

    BJJArsenal Brown Belt

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    I used to do it but not anymore. BUT that's not because I have an issue with it, it's just I prefer attacking the armbar from the back these days anyway. Pull the chin up or the Marcelo variation on the forehead. Either are good. Bitches will complain but they'll complain about you knee-on-bellying too hard as well.
     
  10. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    I'm totally fine with it but I have a pretty high tolerance for roughness in grappling.

    As long as joint locks (especially lower body) and neck cranks are not torqued too quickly I'm fine with nearly everything else.


    There's a HW I often end up rolling with who throws full speed punches and elbows with no warning (light or no contact, but some of them slip through) during rolling, I assume he's prepping for mma. Most bjj types I've met would freak out upon rolling with him, but I look at the positive and use his gnp to make myself control range and control his ability to strike while always being cognizant of striking when I'm in an inferior position.
     
  11. Tylerlikesmma

    Tylerlikesmma Brown Belt

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    He just does that when you're just doing regular rolling?? I love doing self defense jiu jitsu. in fact, I prefer it to just grappling, but the punches are more like 70 % & no elbows..
     
  12. Jackson 2012

    Jackson 2012 Orange Belt

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    I always work by the Golden Rule i.e. do unto others....
     
  13. Tylerlikesmma

    Tylerlikesmma Brown Belt

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    it's fair game in that case. because like I stated earlier, I want good guys to go hard against me
     
  14. jct

    jct White Belt

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    This is stupid. A lot of things we do rolling pure bjj require our partner to be 'polite'. What if you tried to bite his arm as he was wrapping it over your face? What if you turtled when he was passing your guard? Would he have started elbowing the back of your head?

    Sure, these are good techniques to know and practice under certain circumstances, but I don't think a brown belt rolling with a white belt is one of them.
     
  15. Lasse

    Lasse Green Belt

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    If something is done just to cause pain then it is a dick-move. But if the pain is a side-effect of an otherwise functional technique then it is acceptable.

    So the real question is whether you could force the neck up even if it was a competition and they resisted with all their might or not.
     
  16. shunyata

    shunyata Red Belt

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    Yeah he's a lil crazy.

    His version of the standard grappling hand slap / fist bump before a roll is that he'll literally slap your hand with all of his power as if he was trying to knock it off in order to bull rush your center line. Which is pretty much how his rolls start.


    Still, I found I get a lot more progress in training and am much happier when accepting things and people as they are and deciphering what I can learn and improve from them rather than get upset about ungentlemanly behavior.
     
  17. NoneGiven

    NoneGiven White Belt

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    Those things that you listed are illegal in the context of submission wrestling, which the nose-lift and jaw-smash RNC are not. Obviously there are any number of things the other guy could do to you absent any other considerations. This one, however, you can reasonably expect to come across if you roll with enough people and is worth occasionally thinking about.
     
  18. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    I'm no knucklehead, but I don't want to be seen as a wimpy sparring partner either, so I have a personal policy of not bitching about anything that's a legal technique. If it makes me really uncomfortable, I just tap. Otherwise I don't complain. I have no problem with this move.
     
  19. Jackson 2012

    Jackson 2012 Orange Belt

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    Agreed.
    The aim of BJJ is to apply sufficient pain to your opponent to make them submit. If it's not against the rules, I dont see the problem. We commonly use lots of techniques/positions to make life uncomfortable- eg/ knee on belly.
     
  20. Ice 9 Cobra

    Ice 9 Cobra Black Belt

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    If I don't know the guy, I will do the marcelo turning the wrist.

    If it's a training partner I know though, I just rnc over their face.
     

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