How do you grasp the idea that something has always existed?

OverPressure said:
Nothing has always existed nor will it ever.
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Yeah, even the Universe has an upper bound on its age. 13.7B years or so?

Now if you're talking metaphysics, you can always go with the old "eternity is ineffable and beyond the mortal ken"... but I'm not sure how useful a concept eternity is practically.
 
Organic Damage said:
Yeah, even the Universe has an upper bound on its age. 13.7B years or so?

Now if you're talking metaphysics, you can always go with the old "eternity is ineffable and beyond the mortal ken"... but I'm not sure how useful a concept eternity is practically.
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I just stick to the idea that the only constants in the Universe are change and death.
 
Organic Damage said:
Yeah, even the Universe has an upper bound on its age. 13.7B years or so?

Now if you're talking metaphysics, you can always go with the old "eternity is ineffable and beyond the mortal ken"... but I'm not sure how useful a concept eternity is practically.
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Is that a fact? If time is relative shouldn't the age of the universe be as well?
 
I don't think "something has always been there". The world around us shows the reality of impermanence.
The only thing that has always been there is the life energy that pushes things to exist.
 
Don't believe that something was always around. Look at the Big Bang, there was nothing and then there was something. A universe exploding out of nothingness sounds far more likely than a universe that has just always existed in my opinion
 
Sarge3000 said:
I don't think "something has always been there". The world around us shows the reality of impermanence.
The only thing that has always been there is the life energy that pushes things to exist.
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Even empty space is not empty. It seems the only possibility is for there to be something

 
Contemplation on such things is healthy. Mans ability to contemplate and apply reason and wonder is what separates us from other creatures.
 
This is a long read, but well worth it, if those topics interest you. You don't need to be a science geek to find the article fascinating:
https://www.foundalis.com/phi/WhyTimeFlows.htm

What is even more interesting, some of the ancient eastern traditions propose the similar understanding of time and space:
 
frye666 said:
Maybe the universe expands and contracts and just goes on this cycle forever. I don't even want to touch the multiverse idea in this thread. But hell, even if you think a God made everything, you have the same dilemma. How can something have always been there, if there is no starting point? I cannot even come up with some far fetched theory on the how.
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By understanding that there is no before. It's just a bullshit concept your brain makes or our simulation makes.
 
EyeOfNewt said:
Is that a fact? If time is relative shouldn't the age of the universe be as well?
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I think time is relative because its an arbitrary measurement of entropy that humans developed.

I am not sure the speed of what we consider to be "1 second" varies depending on where you are, or that it has (according to our current reckoning) been different at different points in the evolution of the Universe. But I'd be interested in evidence to the contrary.
 
Organic Damage said:
I think time is relative because its an arbitrary measurement of entropy that humans developed.

I am not sure the speed of what we consider to be "1 second" varies depending on where you are, or that it has (according to our current reckoning) been different at different points in the evolution of the Universe. But I'd be interested in evidence to the contrary.
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If entropy changes, it has 'time'. But time doesn't exist. That means that you're incompletely explaining that phenomenon -- entropy. The dimension of time doesn't exist. That means that there's more happening in the same (or other) dimensions that you're not explaining and you're just using time a proxy for those unexplained things.
 
superpunch said:
If entropy changes, it has 'time'. But time doesn't exist. That means that you're incompletely explaining that phenomenon -- entropy. The dimension of time doesn't exist. That means that there's more happening in the same (or other) dimensions that you're not explaining and you're just using time a proxy for those unexplained things.
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Isn't that the same thing as saying money doesn't exist? It's a representation of a quantity with an agreed upon value that is useful for the purposes of measurement.

What does "exist" mean in this context?
 
Organic Damage said:
Isn't that the same thing as saying money doesn't exist? It's a representation of a quantity with an agreed upon value that is useful for the purposes of measurement.

What does "exist" mean in this context?
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No. You can easily disprove time using an 'ok, what about before that?' argument. Since it's disproven, anything that uses time as an explanation is actually just using time as a crutch.
 
Organic Damage said:
I think time is relative because its an arbitrary measurement of entropy that humans developed.

I am not sure the speed of what we consider to be "1 second" varies depending on where you are, or that it has (according to our current reckoning) been different at different points in the evolution of the Universe. But I'd be interested in evidence to the contrary.
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i was under the impression that when we measure time it's always according to some frame of reference. How could the age of the universe be absolute then?

Two observers measuring elapsed time within the same frame of reference will find 1 second to be 1 second but that's not true if they're in separate frames. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

When given the 13B years old figure, it's given relative to a frame of reference. But then i could come up with a different figure in other coordinates

@rj144 am i wrong
 
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Dunno, but it's pretty dope when you think about.

Supreme creator of the universe came into existence alone and will always be.
That's fucking dope
 
There is nothing wrong with admitting that there are things you don't know. It is actually an indication of intelligence. The Big Bang Theory comes from observations that everything seems to be moving away from a point in space. I would be like you standing in a spot and being hit by a snowball. You could probably figure out what direction it came from but not the exact point or who threw it. From the direction something is moving we infer the direction it came from.

Some theories might explain a Big Bang but leave more unanswered questions. As humans, we see things having a beginning and an end. There were things humans once thought were constant, like the Earth, Moon and Sun but we realized that everything changes.
 
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