How do you explain BJ Penn fall?

[SalvadorAllende]

Wat?

From his ex wife:

"She also said Penn tried to get her to have sex with other men and pressured her to smoke marijuana."

https://mmajunkie.com/2019/04/ufc-bj-penn-restraining-order-physical-sexual-abuse-allegations

 

[MescalineDreams]

Royce Gracie inspired the entire sport and I'd argue he's also overrated. Getting fat and fighting at higher weight classes, or licking blood off yourself doesn't impress me like it does others. He was an average boxer and slightly above average jitz guy. No wrestling, no kicking and no cardio. I am not eempressed by iz peerformance

Lol and you would know this how? Penn provided a powerful framework for up and coming fighters and still does to this day.

He will always be one of many inspirations to martial artists and talent wise was one of the greats.

But you sound like a fan, one who also holds a degree of bias so I'm not gonna take you too seriously here.

Stick to watching and leave the real opinions to people who actually understand the game

 

[chubbman]

 

[JohnnyDragon]

Lol and you would know this how? Penn provided a powerful framework for up and coming fighters and still does to this day.

He will always be one of many inspirations to martial artists and talent wise was one of the greats.

But you sound like a fan, one who also holds a degree of bias so I'm not gonna take you too seriously here.

Stick to watching and leave the real opinions to people who actually understand the game

Except that I'm a former MMA fighter and current Muay Thai trainer. But hey, what does this 42 year who's trained his whole life and watched UFC from the beginning know?

The argument you keep repeating is that he's inspirational. Great, he inspires you. That doesn't negate my analysis of his skill set.

 

[vgff]

USADA didnt effect him,his losing streak began at 31,not old at all to fall that hard,is it confidence? he looks like total bum nowdays

it's fully possible that he was a psychopath to begin with. or he's struggling with finding his new identity now that he sucks at fighting

 

[MescalineDreams]

Except that I'm a former MMA fighter and current Muay Thai trainer. But hey, what does this 42 year who's trained his whole life and watched UFC from the beginning know?

The argument you keep repeating is that he's inspirational. Great, he inspires you. That doesn't negate my analysis of his skill set.

Bro you basically said that he's average in very area

I don't give a shit what you claim to have done, you don't know shit. Your analysis is clearly rooted in bias.

Fix that shit otherwise shut your mouth.

I have broken down his skillet in this thread. I'm not going to repeat it. As a martial artist he is definitely one of those guys who inspired the newer generation of fighters along with Fedor, Anderson, gsp and a few others.

 

[Bowel-forged Stool]

It was like he was climbing a tree for cardio one day, and the branch he was holding broke

 

[JohnnyDragon]

Bro you basically said that he's average in very area

I don't give a shit what you claim to have done, you don't know shit. Your analysis is clearly rooted in bias.

Fix that shit otherwise shut your mouth.

I have broken down his skillet in this thread. I'm not going to repeat it. As a martial artist he is definitely one of those guys who inspired the newer generation of fighters along with Fedor, Anderson, gsp and a few others.

Numbers don't lie. He has an even win/loss record and wins against gate-keeper type competitors. You can claim bias all you want, but numbers are concrete.

 

[gono btw]

Numbers don't lie. He has an even win/loss record and wins against gate-keeper type competitors. You can claim bias all you want, but numbers are concrete.

Royce Gracie inspired the entire sport and I'd argue he's also overrated. Getting fat and fighting at higher weight classes, or licking blood off yourself doesn't impress me like it does others. He was an average boxer and slightly above average jitz guy. No wrestling, no kicking and no cardio. I am not eempressed by iz peerformance

Except that I'm a former MMA fighter and current Muay Thai trainer. But hey, what does this 42 year who's trained his whole life and watched UFC from the beginning know?

The argument you keep repeating is that he's inspirational. Great, he inspires you. That doesn't negate my analysis of his skill set.

Ya seem 2 really know what ya´re talkin´about, mate...

 

[JohnnyDragon]

Ya seem 2 really know what ya´re talkin´about, mate...

Solid counter argument. You got me

 

[DrunkMonkMeth]

Bj made him name im the early days of lw ufc
. his biggest wins being sean sherk matt hughes and frankie edgar. He was never near the level of lw we see today

 

[gono btw]

Solid counter argument. You got me

It´s coz Im not sure, mate...ya look like a troll.

 

[gono btw]

Bj made him name im the early days of lw ufc
. his biggest wins being sean sherk matt hughes and frankie edgar. He was never near the level of lw we see today

The assessment of a fighter´s career sometimes needs to go beyond the mere acknowledgement of his wins [Quality losses].

 

[JohnnyDragon]

The assessment of a fighter´s career sometimes needs to go beyond the mere acknowledgement of his wins [Quality losses].

So to reiterate, I've claimed that BJ has average boxing, above average jitz and poor wrestling and kicking. I acknowledge that people find him inspiring. My claim is strictly that he is overrated from a skill perspective. I'm not trolling. I just can see things without emotion being involved.

 

[mime]

Hes old and damaged from fights against gsp and diaz

 

[ImNotSurpisedDonks!]

His ex gf shed light on it: he stays in fight camps because if he doesn't, he goes off the rails and wants men to bang his woman and get cucked. He does not really care about winning titles, or winning at all, it is more like he has to stay in fight camps as a kind of alcoholics anonymous. He's a rich spoiled kid and has always been, doesn't have to worry about things like staying alive, finding a roof over his head, and lacks the hunger and motivation to excel at fighting as other fighters have.

 

[xHeadx]

Not everyone stays in their prime until their mid-30s or late 30s. BJ Penn had an extensive career, lots of wars and there's lots of other factors like genetics, training, drug consumption, mental issues, etc.
NFL players often retire in their early 30s because they already feel the effects and results of not being in your real physical prime anymore. MMA is just more "forgiving" because the athletes aren't that high-level (that's also why the lower-tier athletes in the bigger divisions can fight longer than the (better athletes) smaller ones, look at Oleynik for example.)

Barao is another example. People act like he got USADA'd but the guy just had a long ass career and there's also a mental aspect to it. Some people get better when they lose the belt, some crumble. The guy also never made a dime, dude was probably training in some garage and still washing his clothes in the bathtub when EPOshaw took him out.

Good post. Some peeps hit their prime young, others late; There's no specific age. Fernando Vargas & Tyson come to mind for guys that hit it early & Bernard Hopkins for some later.

There's no single factor with BJ. Though motivated BJ beats anyone...

 

[gono btw]

So to reiterate, I've claimed that BJ has average boxing, above average jitz and poor wrestling and kicking. I acknowledge that people find him inspiring. My claim is strictly that he is overrated from a skill perspective. I'm not trolling. I just can see things without emotion being involved.

hmmm...yeahh...ya said many things, but poor substance, Im afraid...

Quickly, about Hoyce:

Royce Gracie inspired the entire sport and I'd argue he's also overrated.

Hoyce´s career is kindah tricky 2 assess. Ya have to assess it accordin´to his era and how the market was bein´built in the States.
Ya also have to have a solid knowledge about the Vale Tudo era:

Spoiler

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-part-9-bjj-during-the-vale-tudo-era.3826197/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-18-the-genesis-of-ufc-1´s-roster.3855847/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-1-hoyce-his-gi-ufc-1.3734725/

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...-ufc-5-requiem-for-the-vale-tudo-era.3947367/

Whether ya did watch or not since UFC 1 wont help ya on this one, mate. Goes way back.

About BJ:

Ya said he has (or had? kindah confusin... tbh) a limited skill set.
Can ya give us a quick (2 lines) technical assessment of these 3 fights:
> vs Thomas
> vs Fitch
> vs No Rush 1

 

[Tapatio]

Mental health issues.

 

[Dionysian]

Without drugs athleticism starts to decline after 30.

I don't get why we're using an example of a guy declining after 30 like it is something weird. Only weird in a steroid farm I guess. There's a million fighting athletes that peak late 20s and start to decline early 30s.

But let's be Sherdog instead. Instead of time making Chuck terrible it is he lost the look in his eye. Instead of time making BJ decline it is not motivated. Insert meme here instead of the ridiculously obvious answer/"they always sucked"