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How do you avoid heel hooks using the X-guard?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by BWC, Sep 8, 2010.

  1. BWC

    BWC Purple Belt

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    So I started experimenting with the X-guard and was enjoying it quite a bit and having good success sweeping guys until I rolled with our instructor. I tried it just for fun and he immediately kneels on my stomach and puts me in a heel hook and I of course tapped ASAP. He said the X-guard is too easy to counter and sucks and that's why he doesn't teach it. Is he right or there someway to deal with this?
     
  2. ItsAllMental

    ItsAllMental White Belt

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    Many people use the x-guard with great success including the man who really put it on the map, Marcelo Garcia. There are counters for every guard, not just x-guard. Assuming your instructor is a black belt, he can probably heel hook you from any position if he really wanted to. The fact that it was from your x-guard doesn't really mean anything other than he is better than you. You just have to learn to have better control and figure out the counter. So no, I don't agree with your instructor or anyone who would limit themselves in training for that matter.
     
  3. Gerbiljiujitsu

    Gerbiljiujitsu Purple Belt

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    do you mean that he knelt on your stomach and caught you in a toe hold? I'm having a hard time envisioning how he caught you in a heel hook. The only thing I can think of is you're talking about maybe a goofy inverted heel hook but that would be tough to finish considering you can straighten your legs at will and there is no isolation of the knee.

    If you are talking about a heel hook I would like to see it. If you have a video of it I would be interested.
     
  4. Wrestleben

    Wrestleben Brown Belt

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    If he can kneel on your stomach, you are not doing x-guard correctly. You need to push him away with your legs and keep him off balance.
     
  5. SuperSuperRambo

    SuperSuperRambo Senior Moderator Senior Moderator

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    I can't fathom how he was able to do any of these things if you were doing X-guard correctly. Even if he was a black belt. Of the counters to the X-guard I have seen, a heel hook isn't one of them. I mean the heel is exposed on the top leg, but still, he has no control over that leg.
     
  6. Il Wop-O

    Il Wop-O Green Belt

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    Yup, I'm also having a hard time seeing the heel-hook as a viable counter to X-guard. It's there for sure against Z-guard, maybe the TS was mis-speaking?
     
  7. LongVN

    LongVN Blue Belt

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    my money is on toe hold, that is the only foot lock i can see from that position
     
  8. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    Marcelo Garcia is better than your instructor and he teaches X-guard, just FYI
     
  9. DevinTheDewd

    DevinTheDewd Orange Belt

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    You have to learn EVERYTHING... x guard included. Not knowing it all inside out means you will get tricked and GG- Good Game. I'm glad Marcelo wasn't a student of your instructor.
     
  10. PerfectBalance

    PerfectBalance Yellow Belt

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    Marcelo is really the only guy I have seen who can avoid footlock trouble playing a open guard, half guard or x guard. I love all those guards, but I get heelhooked all day. I try to defend correctly by learning to close my guard from half if I'm playing z guard, but I still get caught with toe holds and other footlocks. I also make a habit of tapping quickily, so I can avoid sitting out for six months.
     
  11. bjjmedic

    bjjmedic Orange Belt

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    Mr. Obvious says, "the simplest way to avoid the heel hook to put on the Gi". I don't see how the heel hook is there when using x-guard.
     
  12. BWC

    BWC Purple Belt

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    I don't know. He just grabbed my foot and turned it into a heel hook. He also said toe locks are easy to do on a guy doing x-guard..

    I know Marcelo works x-guard beautifully as it is his baby but come on I'm not ever going to be Marcelo Garcia or do his arm drags either. I'm just trying to make it work for me..
     
  13. Higher Learning

    Higher Learning Brown Belt

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    x-guard is not easily countered IMO... not saying it can't be countered but it is a very dynamic guard

    who is your coach? is he a BB?
     
  14. BWC

    BWC Purple Belt

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    Of course. He's a Rigan Machado BB. With about a million grappling medals and swords on his wall. Sure he's not the greatest ever but I'd say he knows what he's talking about. I mean really is is that hard? Dropping your level kind of keeps you balanced. And the foot is placed right there next to your hand. Watching instructional vids it does seem like it would be easy to counter upon review..
     
  15. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

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    looks reasonable. not saying the xguard isn't a sick guard or that it can be easily countered. just saying I can "potentially" see a heel hook opportunity here.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Calibur

    Calibur Jiu Jitsu Snob

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    The only way the coach could have swivelled his hips to make it remotely possible is if the guy on bottom wasn't controlling the leg with the shoulder.

    Even if he wasn't just extending the leg would have face planted the coach, and the heel hook wouldnt be available because the other leg in the X-guard would be preventing knee isolation.

    I dont think you the TS was heelhooked from Xguard. I think the Xguard was simply passed, and the heelhook came in transition. The Xguard is super dynamic and if you dont have much experience in general you probably wont even realize that you dont have the guard anymore. Its only half a second.
     
  17. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    I don't think anybody should say a position sucks, especially something as widely used as x-guard. Even if he doesn't like it himself he shouldn't discount it like this.
     
  18. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    This seems to me a very defeatist attitude. Neither the X-guard nor the arm drag is a particularly difficult technique to utilize, and people are having success in competition with these moves from white to black belt. You definitely don't have to be Marcelo to make them work. In fact, Marcelo is known for using pretty simple techniques - he just has impeccable timing and executes them flawlessly.
     
  19. El Beebo

    El Beebo Blue Belt

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    TS, could it be that you weren't controlling the leg closest to your head? It seems to me like if you were in the X-guard position, your opponent should be trying not to fall on his face. You should be immediately pushing and pulling, playing with your opponent's balance, which is the first good defense against toe holds or heel hooks.

    Edit: This is pretty much what Calibur said earlier...
     
  20. bagelgod

    bagelgod Green Belt

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    This is probably the worst advice I've ever seen.

    "I've got a technical problem, where someone is using superior skill/technique to beat me!"

    "Well, the obvious solution is to hide behind a rule set!"
     

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