How do women do when rolling against men?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by EGarrett, Aug 8, 2016.

  1. EGarrett

    EGarrett Silver Belt

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    This came up again on the general board, and I'm sure you guys could speak from some actual experience.

    I'm also sure that it depends a lot on the individual people involved. But can you provide some general info? Do black belt women compete evenly with black belt men? Do they have to compete with guys at a lower-level to have an even match? How important is the size?

    Any info is appreciated.
     
  2. Codger

    Codger Brown Belt

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    Women are generally weaker than men of the same size so cannot usually compete at the same skill level.

    Same as most physical sports
     
  3. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    We have a 5x world champ at out gym. She is a black belt, and walks at about 170, not fat whatsoever. She is very strong and very mean and has great technique. The other black belts can beat her, almost all the browns as well. Even many purples will hang with her or go back and forth. I have seen her beat the shit out of a lot of dudes though.

    When you remove strikes and a lot of the physical attributes by starting on the ground, it really gives elite level women a much better chance against beginner men. I would bet this girl could probably beat a lot of guys on this forum under 150lbs.
     
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  4. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    I've never trained with a girl who could really give me trouble on the ground, although my standup game is awful, and I've trained with girls who can take me down.
     
  5. BJ@LW&WW

    [email protected]&WW Gold Belt

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    that would be the more resounding answer than anything. in general, there is a far smaller talent pool to draw from for women due in part to gender differences in interest for martial arts, and probably due to physical attributes as well.

    as far as ranks go, yes, sometimes women get a ranking that for the same skill level might not be seen as justified for men, but this allows them to compete in higher belt divisions.

    ive been beat by one woman i used to train with who was a brown belt while I was a blue in bjj. really women do just fine.. but there certainly is a difference between the skill level that people will reward ranks to for the different genders
     
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  6. Ton

    Ton The master of Potato Plata

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    We have a few aggressive girls at our gym that do pretty well vs men similar size/belt level. But the biggest one of them is 150lbs or so. Size is a huge factor as I am ~220. So we don't roll a whole lot, and when we do its unfortunately not competitive. Its alot of fun watching them tune up new guys though.
     
  7. Forceof1

    Forceof1 Blue Belt

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    It's just like big guys vs small guys - comes down to the question - can the size / strength disparity be overcome by technique? After a certain point, the answer is no- regardless if male or females are involved. For Females, who typically don't have the strength of their similar sized male equivalents - the equation becomes that much harder to balance. A strong135 pound guy can almost offset the average 170 pound guy- so technique can prevail. Not so for ladies, even though many have excellent technical skills.
     
  8. fanboysareevil

    fanboysareevil Green Belt

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    Rolling with women has taught me that the true value of strength/weight is in the neutral: standing with no real dominant grips and pass/sweep guard situations. It's very difficult for even very good girls to get anything going against a guy their own belt level there, generally because of the size and weight. They can be very difficult to pass though, in part because they tend to be more flexible and there is less space to they need to protect. It can also teach you though just how little power matters in some positions if you let a really good girl get dominant position. I train with a woman almost 50 pounds smaller than me and I usually cannot escape when she has mount.

    To the above, I've choked way too many 300 pounders and powerlifters to buy that.

    And, as alluded to earlier in this topic, some coaches have decidedly more lax standards for awarding belts to women in general. Don't really know why.
     
  9. Nnedd

    Nnedd Centaur Booty Belt

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    Girls are gross.
     
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  10. berimBOWLoh

    berimBOWLoh Silver Belt

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    ok, im either the only one honest or every other gym has way more beastly women than mine, which is weird cuz we have had several mundial champs at different levels (altho not black or no real top of the line black belt competitors yet, either, i think that day might come but its hard to really say).

    ime the average black belt competitive female loses to the average purple belt hobbyists male. not saying world class on either side tho, ive never seen that equation. i just know im 155 purple belt 30+ yo hobbyist and when i roll with some black belt females i have to keep it playful or i would smash. With almost all purples/blues (including some mundial/nogi worlds champs) i def have to keep it playful.

    of course i have a size/strength advantage over all of them. none of them are particularly big. prob the biggest is 135.
     
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  11. Steve08

    Steve08 American Fedor Belt

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    I can only speak from very limited personal experience as I've only rolled with two women who I was a lot bigger than, but they were both more experienced than I was. I didn't really feel in danger of being submitted at any point, and I felt as though if I was in trouble, I could just power out of it without much effort. That being said I've never rolled with a woman who was purple belt or higher, nor women who are professional MMA fighters.
     
  12. mcdowels

    mcdowels Brown Belt

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    i watch alot of porn, mostly femvfem wrestling nude/topless. i dont watch mixed wrestling because its generally fake, the guy doesnt try that hard. plus i find guys disgusting and don't want to watch them.

    there was a site a while back called flamingo wrestling (productions?) or something - and they would talk about how they would pair very small or very weak males against strong women - they pointed out women r usually weaker in upper body and so they would pairing such that weaker upper body guys would lose or at least have a fair fight.

    i think dww danube had some mixed matches as well its sucessor fighting-dolls dot com. but i only like watching hte chicks - its more competitive and they are hot. plus its cooler when one dominates the other
     
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  13. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    I hate grappling with girls.... you try to have a serious match. They state they're ready for a serious match. But as soon as it starts their holds quickly become more like embraces, eyes closed, lips slightly parted. And in a few moments after that, then the purring comes.

    it's just not worth it. I'm a married man.
     
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  14. j123

    j123 Pro Sherdogger 500-0-1

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    Let me bang mang
    Its definitely a tricky situation.
    Usually my go to, when in bottom half, is to go to lockdown, and whip up using my hands on chest, then come out the back with a single, or just escape.
    Can't be do that with female training partners.

    We had a pissy member a couple of years back, she's the type that gets pissed when dudes take it easier on her, and wants it 100% with both sides. I was new at the time, and did take it easier on her (in terms of intensity, strength, etc). When she noticed when I was paired up with the local douche and it was like we were rolling at the mundials. She got pissed. Oddly enough, she got paired with a guy who was alot better (the dude is really chill, he really doesn't have an ego. If someone less exp. subs him / beats him, he doesn't care, its cool).
    Anyways, he outclassed her, and she complained to the coach he was going too "rough"

    She ain't around anymore.
     
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  15. Clinchster

    Clinchster Green Belt

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    Some will surprise ya. Most won't. I do know of a few woman that would tear an untrained man the fuck up though. Seen it a few times, always makes me smile.
     
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  16. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    A strangle choke will put a quick end to that.
     
  17. vcmmafan

    vcmmafan Dark Knight Returns

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    Is that No Gi?
     
  18. Dirty Holt

    Dirty Holt Black Belt Professional Fighter

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    Gi, but she does nogi sometimes
     
  19. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    I've never sparred with a woman who could submit me in a legit hard roll. I'm a big guy, and the power differential has always been too great. And I never rolled with a black belt woman as a lower belt.
     
  20. EGDM

    EGDM Blue Belt

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    My sister is a 170 lbs brown belt. She's got technique and enough size to force most male purple belts and below to use physicality to retain their guard. If she passes she's got good top control and can submit. What happens is that guys either get tapped and come back for revenge, or start using a lot of physicality to retain their guard. In that mode, she gets out-powered, and if the guy is thinking about his ego instead of providing a competitive roll, she can get hurt (she's got a history of knee and shoulder problems from playing rugby). She's got to pick her partners very carefully, or moderate her intensity to keep things safe.

    tldr - Gender matters a lot. Being female is probably equivalent to a 20-30 lbs weight penalty, and that increases at higher experience levels where the margins are tighter.
     

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