How different would MMA be if guard was considered a neutral position and standups were rare?

[Lanshire]

It would be better, more like Pride - less gaming the system with late takedowns, 'control' that really isn't control (e.g. conservatism on top, holding position , ala Hendricks/Lawler 1, round 5, etc.)

I advocate that position is really irrelevant (unless that position is IMMEDIATELY threatening, like on top turtle) and what you DO regardless of position is what's important. What a fighter does should come down to threat of finishing and effective damage

But to answer the question, I think MMA would be in a better place if the mindset of "dominant position" and "control" (particularly in guard) being highly rewarded was re-evaluated and substantially reduced, perhaps only look at it if all other things are deemed similar, to break the tie

Yup. Position itself shouldn't mean anything because in and of itself it doesn't mean anything. Just like getting a 1st down or time of possession in other sports. It may increase the likelihood you can do something threatening while your opponent is less likely to but far from guarantees it. If position alone meant such a big deal then wrestlers would be the dominant finishers in MMA but this isn't the case.

But guard is supposed to be considered a neutral position already. A lot of the judges and some fans just don't realize that.

 

[Andrusz]

Yes bjj > wrestling

Not if we bring back head stomps and soccer kicks.

 

[Andrusz]

But whrn

Yup. Position itself shouldn't mean anything because in and of itself it doesn't mean anything. Just like getting a 1st down or time of possession in other sports. It may increase the likelihood you can do something threatening while your opponent is less likely to but far from guarantees it. If position alone meant such a big deal then wrestlers would be the dominant finishers in MMA but this isn't the case.

But guard is supposed to be considered a neutral position already. A lot of the judges and some fans just don't realize that.

Well that's because "scoring" in Football is the only literal means of comparing the two teams. That's just the rules of football, which also follows a time limit and basically goes to "decision" every game.

For MMA when it goes to decision it needs some kind of criteria to judge who "won" the fight. Position and control are deemed important enough to be apart of the evaluation. Perhaps too much I agree, but to say position isn't meaningful in the same way that first downs don't count for points isn't a fair or accurate analogy by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Not if we bring back head stomps and soccer kicks.

Legal head stomps and soccer kicks would increase people get caught in the guard and especially leg locks. Throw the kick or stomp, than get tripped up and boom you're stuck in a knee bar or heel hook.

Legal stomps and soccer kicks would work better against wrestlers who fail to get the TD.

 

[Fahcough]

Allow knees to head. Then you can score it however you want, because turtle-ing will get you KO'd.

 

[Fizzee Water]

Positions shouldn't be scored.

The only scoring criteria should be strikes and submission attempts. If you're a grappler, use your wrestling to get a better position to land strikes and impress judges. You shouldn't be awarded just for being there.

 

[cherryzero]

This topic reminds me of the King Mo vs Mousassi fight in Strokeforce. Mo held top position most of the fight, while Mousassi beat the crap out of him in his guard,

Mo won the fight on the judges scorecards but Mousasi was the only one to do any damage.

 

[MMA]

Positions shouldn't be scored.

The only scoring criteria should be strikes and submission attempts. If you're a grappler, use your wrestling to get a better position to land strikes and impress judges. You shouldn't be awarded just for being there.

Positions in and of themselves can be effective. The person who puts himself in dominant positions throughout the fight is displaying superiority in martial arts. Positions definitely should be factored in scoring.

 

[MMA-woooooh!!!!]

that's how it should be, guard is neutral postion with points being awarded for the guy using the most offensive techniques ie striking and working for a sub

 

[THECYNDlCATE]

If guard on its own was treated as a neutral position and whichever fighter had more effective aggression was considered to be winning (ie. if the guy on top is beating up his opponent with GnP he's winning, but if he's mainly defending subs or getting beat up from the bottom then the bottom guy is winning) and standups were used very sparingly, how different would the landscape of MMA be? Would we see a lot more guard pulling and greater reluctance to follow a grappler to the ground, and would BJJ be the predominant art over striking and wrestling?

We are seriously working on this.