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How different would MMA be if guard was considered a neutral position and standups were rare?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by BigMuffler, Feb 7, 2016.

  1. BigMuffler Loli is love loli is life!

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    If guard on its own was treated as a neutral position and whichever fighter had more effective aggression was considered to be winning (ie. if the guy on top is beating up his opponent with GnP he's winning, but if he's mainly defending subs or getting beat up from the bottom then the bottom guy is winning) and standups were used very sparingly, how different would the landscape of MMA be? Would we see a lot more guard pulling and greater reluctance to follow a grappler to the ground, and would BJJ be the predominant art over striking and wrestling?
     
  2. M Raid K Black Belt

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    This would be basically PRIDE.
     
  3. Magnum1978 Silver Belt

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    It would be better, more like Pride - less gaming the system with late takedowns, 'control' that really isn't control (e.g. conservatism on top, holding position , ala Hendricks/Lawler 1, round 5, etc.)

    I advocate that position is really irrelevant (unless that position is IMMEDIATELY threatening, like on top turtle) and what you DO regardless of position is what's important. What a fighter does should come down to threat of finishing and effective damage

    But to answer the question, I think MMA would be in a better place if the mindset of "dominant position" and "control" (particularly in guard) being highly rewarded was re-evaluated and substantially reduced, perhaps only look at it if all other things are deemed similar, to break the tie
     
  4. Sgt Smith Bassed God

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    I definitely support scoring fights in this way. Staying in top position on the ground without imposing dominance through striking or improving position should not be scored in favor of the fighter on top. And it should be scored in favor of the guy on bottom if he is mounting more effective offense through sub attempts or striking. Their would still be some subjective areas of scoring, but much less in favor of merely scoring TDs in which nothing occurs. While a TD is an offensive maneuver, alone it is not a tactic that will finish the fight. Outside of the rare slam that end in KO/TKO.
     
  5. OnePunchJohn White Belt

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    it was called NHB
     
  6. aus101 Black Belt

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    Lol you don't want to be in guard in modern MMA. The threat of GNP is too much for all but the best guard players.
     
  7. Wizzlebiz Wizzlebiz is the Wizziest

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    It is a double edge sword. On one hand it could be better for scoring. On the other hand it would stall fights way more than currently.

    Id like to see it scored this way but with a 1:30 sec stand up if shit aint happening.
     
  8. Team Sleep Black Belt

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    I would say it depends on how you got into the position. If you were taken down, it would not be a neutral position.
     
  9. peacemaster Black Belt

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    It would be better
     
  10. cakemuncher Black Belt

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    No one is preventing fighters from pull ing guard if they think they can sub their opponent from there.

    The problem is, MMA is not BJJ; the person on top can throw bomb punches and elbows, so being on the bottom is definitely not a desirable position. It's not so much about the scoring.
     
  11. Bend NvR Break Order to Chaos. Chaos to Order.

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    Yes bjj > wrestling
     
  12. Bend NvR Break Order to Chaos. Chaos to Order.

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    Exactly
     
  13. cumafish Silver Belt

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    Would be a good thing, scoring wise.
     
  14. blewgums Vintage Buick Racing Bastard

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    I think they should be allowed to hit each other with desks, but that's just me. I'm very pro desk, as you can see.
     
  15. muaythaibeast Brown Belt

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    The thing is if they actually throw those shots, they would still score points, but that will create openings for a sub/sweep in the scramble. If you just lay on the guy and do nothing, like guys specialise in doing, then you weren't winning.
    No one is preventing someone from pulling guard, but the fact that you lose if you don't finish a sub from a neutral position regardless of what you do is a definite deterrent
     
  16. MMA Silver Belt Platinum Member

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    MMA is already judged by giving the round to the more effective fighter


    your idea won't change or fix bad judging, it's only a less precise, more flawed version of the same rules we already have.
     
  17. SlickNickG White Belt

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    Well for one nick Diaz would have a much better looking record
     
  18. Johnsonville Banned Banned

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    I thought guard is a neutral position, but the takedown is points. To utilize the full potential of the guard up kicks must be allowed. It would drastically alter the top players posture and what not
     
  19. MaTaLa #ConorFold Banned

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    Neutral position is good, fewer standups sucks. 15 seconds w/ no violence or threat of sub should be stood up. Waiting for an opportunity shouldn't be rewarded.
     
  20. scorpipede ring piece

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    not always though. See the history of mma fighting for details.

    Having someone in your guard seems to be considered being on bottom i.e. not in good position. The problem is judges don't understand well enough. Fix the judges and the judging criteria will clear up. Then there's a chance of a better system.
     

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